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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
.300 Varminter and QuickLoad Observations
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<blockquote data-quote="gunderwood" data-source="post: 292797" data-attributes="member: 18739"><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">This is a very long post, but I think it will be worth your time.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I was interested in the .300 Varminter and noticed there is substantial controversy on this forum concerning it. After reading quite a few posts, I broke out QuickLoad and decided to see if it was even close for a .300 WSM to drive the 125gr Nosler BT to 4000fps. At first glance it seems it is not, at least with reasonable pressures.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">However, QuickLoad is just a model. Professionally I am an engineer and I have done quite a bit of modeling/simulations and analysis across many different fields; I still have much to learn. One of the things that is often forgotten is that most of the equations we have from physics and we engineers use are simplifications, models. They only work under a given set of assumptions. Should be common sense, but if I had a nickel for every time someone refused to believe what they were seeing because the model said it couldn't happen…</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">It is also important to build the right kind of model. Too often engineers get caught up in our models and want to model/simulate everything, even when there are other more accurate/reliable solutions. A wise, old engineer/physicists told me a story once about how a particular government program wanted to build a simulation. It was going to take a significant amount of money and time to build the simulation and test it. Then even more money and time to actually run the simulation and get statistically valid results. This older engineer pointed out that a simulation was pointless because there was an analytic solution and you usually use the analytics to validate the simulation. So he got some paper and solved it analytically in a day.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">The moral of the story is only build a model/simulation when you need too and only trust it when it agrees with the analytics and the real world. Now that that bit of modeling philosophy is out of the way, let's take a look at the .300 Varminter claims.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">It seems some of the .300 Varminters critics like to cite the Hodgdon reloading data. Unfortunately, the Hodgdon data does not specify barrel lengths nor twist rates. To evaluate this data I used QuickLoad, the Hodgdon reloading data for the 125gr Nosler BT in .300WSM, and the Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">The data for the .300WSM and a 125gr jacked bullet (page 459) is identical to the Hodgdon data. Unfortunately, no barrel or twist rate is given. Using QuickLoad, I played with the barrel length until I was able to minimize the error in pressure and velocity on all of the Nosler 125gr BT loads from Hodgdon (both Min/Max loads):</span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">QuickLoad Data</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bullet </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">125gr Nosler BT</span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Starting Pressure (PSI) </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3626</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Barrel Length (in) </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">24.5</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">COL </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2.81</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Starting</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Powder </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Grs </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">FPS </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PSI </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H4350 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">69 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3343 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">11 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">51354 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-4,446</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H414 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">68 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3303 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-15 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">51392 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">92</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">760 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">68 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3257 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-61 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">47857 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-3,443</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">IMR 4007 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">65.8 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3247 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">4 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">52047 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2,347</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H380 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">68 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3426 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">80 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">59274 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">4,174</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Varget </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">61 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3203 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-109 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">48827 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-5,873</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H4895 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">58 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3078 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-236 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">42420 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-14,180</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><strong>Max</strong></span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Powder Grs FPS Delta PSI Delta</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H4350 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">73 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3548 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">67 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">62426 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-574</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H414 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">72 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3500 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-40 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">61918 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-1,382</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">760 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">72 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3457 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-83 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">57877 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-5,423</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">IMR 4007 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">70 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3454 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-33 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">63457 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">657</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H380 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">71 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3572 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">79 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">68403 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">5,803</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Varget </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">65 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3390 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-88 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">58648 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-4,452</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">H4895 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">61 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3215 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-216 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">48808 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-14,192</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Everything is default QL except the COL and barrel length. I tested other cartridges with the Nosler 125gr BT and the starting pressure seems correct for this bullet and QL (data presented further on). It appears that the Hodgdon data is from a 24.5" barrel (+- 0.5"). Interestingly, Varget and H4895 both have substantial differences in pressure/velocity between QL and Hodgdon/Lee.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Returning to the QL defaults (COL 2.860" vice 2.810") and a barrel length of 24.5" I get 3371fps, 53314psi for 70gr of N550. This is Richard Franklin's suggested starting load. However, his .300 Varminters are built on 30" barrels yielding: 3579fps, 53314psi, for 70gr of N550 in QL. A far cry from 4000fps, but still not close to max pressure either.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Richard's 4000fps load is supposed to be 75gr of N550. QL results are: 3610fps, 67226psi for a 24.5" barrel and 3773fps, 67226psi for a 30" barrel. Still 250fps shy of 4k and already approx. 3000psi over CIP MAP. If we stopped here it would be easy to say someone is a liar or the loads are easily over 70k psi. <strong>I decided to push onward and check some base assumptions and things get interesting.</strong></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I decided to pull up Lapua/Vihtavuori reload data. At least in theory, their data should be spot on for their powders. Fortunately, Lapua specifies barrel length and twist rate. It should be noted that the twist rate for the .300 WSM test barrel (1:10) is tighter than optimal for the 125gr Nosler BT and much tighter than the 1:15 Richard uses. I compared the Lapua data for N550 (Richards recommended powder) against QL:</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Test Barrel: 24.5" 1:10 twist</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">COL: 2.709"</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Otherwise QL defaults</span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bullet </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Grs </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">FPS </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PSI</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">62.7 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3117 </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">62.7 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3016 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-101 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">37565</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">67.7 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3468</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">67.7 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3258 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-210 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">47283</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Interestingly, QL is giving 101fps lower for the starting load and 210fps lower for the max loading. Just for fun I wanted to see what the max load was under QL was: 74.4gr of N550 for 3580fps in a 24.5" barrel. About the same as what I got for the Nosler.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bullet </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Grs </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">FPS </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PSI</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 167gr Scenar </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">54.9 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2730</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 167gr Scenar - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">54.9 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2600 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-130 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">36007</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 167gr Scenar </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">61.3 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3025</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 167gr Scenar - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">61.3 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2882 -</span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">143 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">48907</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Again, QL gives data that is much slower then Lapua's N550. Max loading in QL was: 67.1gr for 3130fps in a 24.5" barrel.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bullet </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Grs </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">FPS </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PSI</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 185gr Mega </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">52.6 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2572</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 185gr Mega - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">52.6 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2454 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-118 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">35031</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 185gr Mega </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">59.1 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2844</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 185gr Mega - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">59.1 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2727 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-117 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">47836</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">QL is still 100fps lower in the .300 WSM than the Lapua factory data. It does seem the heavier bullets give less error in velocity than the lighter bullets. It is also possible Lapua's data is junk (not likely). It should be noted that Lapua wasn't specifying pressures, so I have no idea if the QL number above are even close. Nearly every Lapua factory load I tested during this inquiry QL calculated the pressure right at MAP – 25%.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">To test the quality of QL predictions with Vihtavuori powder and the .300 WSM I tried comparing some more loadings.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Cartridge </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">300 WSM</span> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Test Barrel </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">24.5" 1:10</span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">COL </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2.709"</span> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Powder </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">N150</span> </p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bullet </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Grs F</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PS </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PSI</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">59 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3159</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">59 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2943 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-216 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">37252</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">63.3 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3386</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">63.3 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3142 -</span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">244 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">45618</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Cartridge </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">300 WSM</span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Test Barrel </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">24.5" 1:10</span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">COL </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2.709"</span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Powder </span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">N160</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bullet </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Grs </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">FPS </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Delta </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">PSI</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">66.1 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3127</span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">66.1 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2871 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-256 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">35891</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">72.5 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3428</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">72.5 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3174 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">-254 </span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">47990</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">This is only two other factory Lapua loadings, but both are showing similar results to N550, 200+fps low in QL. It doesn't seem to be a problem with the 5 series of powder, but most comparisons are needed.</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gunderwood, post: 292797, member: 18739"] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This is a very long post, but I think it will be worth your time.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I was interested in the .300 Varminter and noticed there is substantial controversy on this forum concerning it. After reading quite a few posts, I broke out QuickLoad and decided to see if it was even close for a .300 WSM to drive the 125gr Nosler BT to 4000fps. At first glance it seems it is not, at least with reasonable pressures.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]However, QuickLoad is just a model. Professionally I am an engineer and I have done quite a bit of modeling/simulations and analysis across many different fields; I still have much to learn. One of the things that is often forgotten is that most of the equations we have from physics and we engineers use are simplifications, models. They only work under a given set of assumptions. Should be common sense, but if I had a nickel for every time someone refused to believe what they were seeing because the model said it couldn’t happen…[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]It is also important to build the right kind of model. Too often engineers get caught up in our models and want to model/simulate everything, even when there are other more accurate/reliable solutions. A wise, old engineer/physicists told me a story once about how a particular government program wanted to build a simulation. It was going to take a significant amount of money and time to build the simulation and test it. Then even more money and time to actually run the simulation and get statistically valid results. This older engineer pointed out that a simulation was pointless because there was an analytic solution and you usually use the analytics to validate the simulation. So he got some paper and solved it analytically in a day.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The moral of the story is only build a model/simulation when you need too and only trust it when it agrees with the analytics and the real world. Now that that bit of modeling philosophy is out of the way, let’s take a look at the .300 Varminter claims.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]It seems some of the .300 Varminters critics like to cite the Hodgdon reloading data. Unfortunately, the Hodgdon data does not specify barrel lengths nor twist rates. To evaluate this data I used QuickLoad, the Hodgdon reloading data for the 125gr Nosler BT in .300WSM, and the Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The data for the .300WSM and a 125gr jacked bullet (page 459) is identical to the Hodgdon data. Unfortunately, no barrel or twist rate is given. Using QuickLoad, I played with the barrel length until I was able to minimize the error in pressure and velocity on all of the Nosler 125gr BT loads from Hodgdon (both Min/Max loads):[/SIZE][/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]QuickLoad Data[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]Bullet [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]125gr Nosler BT[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Starting Pressure (PSI) [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]3626[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Barrel Length (in) [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]24.5[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]COL [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]2.81[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Starting[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]Powder [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Grs [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]FPS [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PSI [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]H4350 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]69 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3343 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]11 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]51354 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-4,446[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]H414 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]68 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3303 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-15 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]51392 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]92[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]760 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]68 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3257 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-61 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]47857 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-3,443[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]IMR 4007 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]65.8 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3247 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]4 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]52047 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2,347[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]H380 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]68 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3426 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]80 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]59274 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]4,174[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Varget [/FONT][FONT=Arial]61 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3203 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-109 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]48827 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-5,873[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]H4895 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]58 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3078 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-236 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]42420 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-14,180[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][B]Max[/B][/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Powder Grs FPS Delta PSI Delta[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]H4350 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]73 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3548 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]67 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]62426 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-574[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]H414 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]72 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3500 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-40 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]61918 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-1,382[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]760 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]72 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3457 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-83 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]57877 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-5,423[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]IMR 4007 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]70 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3454 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-33 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]63457 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]657[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]H380 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]71 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3572 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]79 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]68403 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]5,803[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Varget [/FONT][FONT=Arial]65 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3390 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-88 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]58648 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-4,452[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]H4895 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]61 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3215 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-216 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]48808 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-14,192[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Everything is default QL except the COL and barrel length. I tested other cartridges with the Nosler 125gr BT and the starting pressure seems correct for this bullet and QL (data presented further on). It appears that the Hodgdon data is from a 24.5” barrel (+- 0.5”). Interestingly, Varget and H4895 both have substantial differences in pressure/velocity between QL and Hodgdon/Lee.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Returning to the QL defaults (COL 2.860” vice 2.810”) and a barrel length of 24.5” I get 3371fps, 53314psi for 70gr of N550. This is Richard Franklin’s suggested starting load. However, his .300 Varminters are built on 30” barrels yielding: 3579fps, 53314psi, for 70gr of N550 in QL. A far cry from 4000fps, but still not close to max pressure either.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Richard’s 4000fps load is supposed to be 75gr of N550. QL results are: 3610fps, 67226psi for a 24.5” barrel and 3773fps, 67226psi for a 30” barrel. Still 250fps shy of 4k and already approx. 3000psi over CIP MAP. If we stopped here it would be easy to say someone is a liar or the loads are easily over 70k psi. [B]I decided to push onward and check some base assumptions and things get interesting.[/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I decided to pull up Lapua/Vihtavuori reload data. At least in theory, their data should be spot on for their powders. Fortunately, Lapua specifies barrel length and twist rate. It should be noted that the twist rate for the .300 WSM test barrel (1:10) is tighter than optimal for the 125gr Nosler BT and much tighter than the 1:15 Richard uses. I compared the Lapua data for N550 (Richards recommended powder) against QL:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Test Barrel: 24.5” 1:10 twist[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]COL: 2.709”[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Otherwise QL defaults[/SIZE][/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Bullet [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Grs [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]FPS [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PSI[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ [/FONT][FONT=Arial]62.7 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3117 [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]62.7 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3016 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-101 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]37565[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ [/FONT][FONT=Arial]67.7 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3468[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]67.7 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3258 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-210 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]47283[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Interestingly, QL is giving 101fps lower for the starting load and 210fps lower for the max loading. Just for fun I wanted to see what the max load was under QL was: 74.4gr of N550 for 3580fps in a 24.5” barrel. About the same as what I got for the Nosler.[/SIZE][/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Bullet [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Grs [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]FPS [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PSI[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 167gr Scenar [/FONT][FONT=Arial]54.9 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2730[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 167gr Scenar - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]54.9 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2600 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-130 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]36007[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 167gr Scenar [/FONT][FONT=Arial]61.3 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3025[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 167gr Scenar - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]61.3 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2882 -[/FONT][FONT=Arial]143 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]48907[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Again, QL gives data that is much slower then Lapua’s N550. Max loading in QL was: 67.1gr for 3130fps in a 24.5” barrel.[/SIZE][/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Bullet [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Grs [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]FPS [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PSI[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 185gr Mega [/FONT][FONT=Arial]52.6 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2572[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 185gr Mega - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]52.6 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2454 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-118 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]35031[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 185gr Mega [/FONT][FONT=Arial]59.1 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2844[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 185gr Mega - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]59.1 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2727 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-117 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]47836[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]QL is still 100fps lower in the .300 WSM than the Lapua factory data. It does seem the heavier bullets give less error in velocity than the lighter bullets. It is also possible Lapua’s data is junk (not likely). It should be noted that Lapua wasn’t specifying pressures, so I have no idea if the QL number above are even close. Nearly every Lapua factory load I tested during this inquiry QL calculated the pressure right at MAP – 25%.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]To test the quality of QL predictions with Vihtavuori powder and the .300 WSM I tried comparing some more loadings.[/SIZE][/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Cartridge [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]300 WSM[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Test Barrel [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]24.5" 1:10[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]COL [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]2.709"[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Powder [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]N150[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Bullet [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Grs F[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PS [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PSI[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ [/FONT][FONT=Arial]59 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3159[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]59 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2943 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-216 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]37252[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ [/FONT][FONT=Arial]63.3 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3386[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]63.3 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3142 -[/FONT][FONT=Arial]244 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]45618[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Cartridge [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]300 WSM[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Test Barrel [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]24.5" 1:10[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]COL [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]2.709"[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Powder [/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial]N160[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]Bullet [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Grs [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]FPS [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Delta [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]PSI[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ [/FONT][FONT=Arial]66.1 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3127[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]66.1 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2871 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-256 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]35891[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ [/FONT][FONT=Arial]72.5 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3428[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Lapua 123gr FMJ - QL [/FONT][FONT=Arial]72.5 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3174 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]-254 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]47990[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This is only two other factory Lapua loadings, but both are showing similar results to N550, 200+fps low in QL. It doesn’t seem to be a problem with the 5 series of powder, but most comparisons are needed.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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