Wnchester 70 vs Remington 700 XCR tactical long range

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by dmax1800, May 15, 2013.

  1. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    I am looking for a 300 win mag to shoot an elk at 400 yards. I've tried a Winchester 70 extreme weather. It shoots 2 1/2 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards. Remington claims that their XCR tactical long range will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards and 4 inch groups at 400 yards. I'm not satisfied with the Winchester's accuracy. Should I get the Remington???
     
  2. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    I have an xcr long range tac in 308. It shoots 1/3 minute groups I love it.
     

  3. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    Since you included all the pertinent load , conditions , scope , mount , work done , and your shooting experience I would highly recommend you try the Remlin. Btw , are you interested in selling tha pos Winchester extreme weather ?
     
  4. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    When was the Winchester Model 70 you tested made? What ammo did you try when you tested it?

    My first centerfire rifles were Remingtons. They were both made in the 90's and were decent rifles. I have heard a lot about how Remington quality control has gone downhill over the last few years.

    In contrast, I own a recent production Winchester Model 70 that is superbly made in every respect. It has never seen a factory round down its barrel, but my handloads are shooting under 1/2" @ 100 yards.

    I still have one of my Remingtons. It is a 700VS in .308 that, to this day, is the most accurate rifle I own.

    However, in terms of CURRENT production quality, I would take a Winchester Model 70 over a Remington any day. There just is no contest in terms of build quality.

    You might get lucky and get a Remington that shoots well right out of the box. Or, you might get one of the lemons that Remington seems to have a reputation for producing these days.

    IMO, your odds of getting an accurate rifle out of the box are better with a Winchester at this time. Second on my list would be a CZ or Savage.
     
  5. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    I tried Winchester, Remington Premier, Barnes Vor-Tx, Federal Premium, Federal Fusion, and Hornady ammo. I also tried handloads with Barnes, Nosler partition, Nosler accubond and Berger bullets. I tried a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14.50 and a Nikon 4.5-14x40 buckmaster. I've got Weaver bases and Warne rings. I'm shooting off of sand bags. Wind has either been calm or slight (about 5 mph).
     
  6. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    I will give one piece of advice . If you are looking to knock over elk way out there at 400 yards you certainly don't need a cannon like the 300 win mag. 7-08 , 308 , 280 , 30-06 would get the job done. The are also much easier to shoot in a light rifle. Being able to shoot accurately is much more important than power.
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I love my Remmy 700's. Best shooting factory guns I've ever owned.

    Some folks have had bad experiences, but all mine have been serious shooters. Guess I got lucky.

    So, I would have to say, give a higher-end Remington a shot. Remington makes the 700 5R in a .300 WM, and those 5R's are tack-drivers right out of the box. I have a 700 5R .308 Win, and it's shooting 1.286" 24-shot groups @ 100 yards.

    The measurement it shows is 1.594", but you have to subract the bullet diameter to get a true measurement, which comes out to 1.286".


    And I can prove it! I had witnesses, too.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    The Winchester should be able to get under 1 moa. Have you checked the float , bedding , ect. Any of the makes can let a lemon out the door but the new Winchesters are well made.
    Remington quality control has become a bad joke in the last few years. You could get a decent rifle but there is a good chance you could get a train wreck of a rifle also.
    My guess would be check the bed , barrel float , and trigger. Then either have someone watch you or better , set up a video camera to record your shooting. That is a mule kicking rifle without a break and it wouldn't suprise me a bit you have developed a flinch you are unaware of.
     
  9. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    get the remington . quickly.
     
  10. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    The rifle is brand new. I had a gunsmith check over the rifle. The barrel is free floated and the receiver is bedded OK. He found that the barrel was slightly oversized. It is .309 and it should be .308. Plus the barrel is tighter at the breach end than at the muzzle end. Everything else checked out fine. I talked to Winchester and the bore is within their specs (.308 plus or minus .002), so they wouldn't do anything. I'm shooting off of sand bags and its a surprise when it goes "boom", so I don't think I'm flinching. I had a friend shoot it and he got similar results. He supposedly can shoot the cap off of a plastic bottle at 300 yards with his 25-06.
     
  11. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you have done the basics. It may take a lot of loading to find something it likes or sell it and try to find another rifle. If you sell it and get something else I would recommend buying a custom from one of the smiths on here or rework the winchester. I've come to the conclusion it is cheaper to buy a custom in the long run. I don't believe you are any more likely to get a good Remington. From the box I would look to a Savage or a Tikka . I believe if you work at it you will find a powder , bullet , and seating depth combination that will work but it may take more time and money than you have to put into it. I have a Remington 700 I hate but don't sell because I have so much time and money invested . I can't bear to walk away. All my future rifles will start with a used rifle for a donor action and have exactly what I want built with quality parts. For $1600 to $2000 I can have a rifle that I know will shoot instead of $1000 for a "quality" factory rifle I will end up spending another $500 to a $1000 to get shooting.
     
  12. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    The Mod 70 is pretty well known to be a good action, you could just rebarrel it and have a smith true everything up. You might be in it another $500-600, but it should be a shooter.
     
  13. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I was getting at. You already have the action and an ok stock. An action face and lugg true is @$150 and another $150 -$200 to install a short chambered and threaded barrel. The barrel will run $300 to $500. Might pay a little less or a little more but you will have a rifle you can believe in.
     
  14. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    good gunsmith???

    I've talked to a gunsmith in Kansas City, but he can't put on a new barrel for a year. I need an ACCURATE rifle this summer to practice and work up a hand load before this fall's elk hunt. He can lap the barrel which he says will improve the accuracy, but he doesn't know how much of an improvement.
    Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith who could put on a new barrel in a month or two???