Wildcat idea looking for advice

[dkhunt14]

The gunwriter Jamison put a patent on the WSM stuff. A lot of the companies refused to pay the royalty's. It really put a hurt on the sales of WSM stuff. I truly believe the WSM would be way more popular if the companies would of produced the guns. That's why its hard to find a lot of WSM models. The case is really accurate and easy to load for. The nodes are big and accuracy doesn't seem to fall off with changes of temperature and things like that compared to some other cartridges. The brass is really thick and lasts. The accuracy is so good that a lot of the 1000 yard Heavy gun records are held by it. Both single target and aggregate. In fact the heavy gun class is pretty much dominated by the 300 WSM. The 308 Baer and the 300 Win. have all but disappeared in 1000 yard BR. Matt

 

[EddieHarren]

I thought the OP was talking about WSSM brass. Did Jamison have any claims on that brass?

 

[dkhunt14]

I believe he had it on that also. He had drawings for shortened 404 Jeffries and the court sided with him. He is not allowed to write anymore under the terms of the agreement. Funny thing is I believe Ackley and other guys fooled around with it also but they didn't patent it. It really hurt the popularity of them. Matt

 

[EddieHarren]

So, in other words, any shortened 404 Jeff case falls under Jamisons patent. Seems vague to me.

 

[dkhunt14]

I went and researched it and couldn't find anything definite. But seeing he owned the Patent on the 300 WSM case and the WSSM's were a shortened 300 WSM I believe it would be a patent infringement. It was like the nail in the coffin for Winchester. Both companies Winchester and Browning quit making WSSM guns so there must be something to it. Matt

 

[Mikecr]

He patented the ratios(short & fat)(based on WSM/WSSM dimensions).
Stole it directly from Winchester(who hadn't patented WSM/WSSM).
It was evil in the purest sense.
You can lookup the patent claims.
Patent US5826361 - Short-action chamber and bolt assembly for high power firearm cartridge - Google Patents

 

[dkhunt14]

Thanks Mike I knew it existed but couldn't remember where I saw it. It actually hurt the sale of both. The 300 WSM would have really took off because of all the good things about it. It really hurt Winchester and probably ended them. The suit was really big. Others have done it but didn't patent it. Matt

 

[kweidner]

so when the patent expires you think they might make them again? Really a shame as everyone I have shot was really accurate. I just read the story. That is a bunch of crap. Read the patent basically he patented all short fat powder columns.

 

[dkhunt14]

He basically ruined the WSM and family of cartridges. It is a shame because the 300 WSM brass made by Norma is really good. The cartridge has the right capacity and is really easy to get shooting. The brass is also built like a tank and lasts. It is one of the easiest 30 cals to get shooting. I never had a WSSM so I don't know about them. He sort of took down Winchester on his own. Browning was planning on releasing a whole bunch of models and when they heard Winchester was getting sued they stopped all advertising and production right away. Matt

 

[Buttermilk]

Jamison was working on his own line of wildcats called xxx Jamison long before Winchester brought to market their WSM's.

The Winchester WSM's were near identical to Jamison's wildcat cases.

That's why he sued and won.

Not taking up for him. I have no dog in the fight.

I remember reading about his wildcats when he wrote about them several years ago.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Jamison was working on his own line of wildcats called xxx Jamison long before Winchester brought to market their WSM's.

The Winchester WSM's were near identical to Jamison's wildcat cases.

That's why he sued and won.

Not taking up for him. I have no dog in the fight.

I remember reading about his wildcats when he wrote about them several years ago.

As a former software "inventor" and engineer I feel very qualified to have an opinion.

As happens when someone protects their intellectual property the looser is the end user when the licensing fees exceed the market ability to absorb them. There is no profit in excessive licensing fees because there is no one to pay them.

TV was invented long before we got it. The inventor died a pauper as the industry could not absorb the costs so they waited.

This scenario is repeated over and over and over.

The WSM may come back when the patent expires or not. I hope to live long enough to see what comes of it.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I get it. lots of trouble better mousetrap. Really though isn't this how the 22 and 6ppc were born? Since original post I been kind of researching. There is one out there in basically a 30br improved. Sounds interesting. Short fat powder columns seem to have inherent accuracy. It's a shame those wssm are a dying breed. They really were accurate. IMHO the biggest strike against them were the end user. The barrels must be clean. If I clean mine every 10 rounds it will run .25MOA. Brass these days can cost 2.00 a piece if you can find it. I still have a bit but not much. Was just throwing out ideas for its next life. Because I have the set up to make VLD rebated and flat base in .30 and I might not see my next set of swage dies for over a year, it will be a short fat 30 of some type. I am open to ideas. Basically looking for quality brass in a short fat 30 that will work on wssm action.

I'm pretty sure your Model 70 can handle a full WSM sized case.

But

As I think I said before, IIWM a 30 Sherman Short Mag. Nosler/Norma brass is available and very good. Win brass should be in stock soon. Rem brass works fine.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...In fact the heavy gun class is pretty much dominated by the 300 WSM. The 308 Baer and the 300 Win. have all but disappeared in 1000 yard BR. Matt

I will go smaller my 300 RUM for my long range bench gun.