Which route to take?

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by The7mmSTW, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. The7mmSTW

    The7mmSTW Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Im new to long range shooting, im building a 7mm STW which i feel with have plenty of power to reach much farther than id ever want to shoot

    I am looking for a scope to put on my new build, but before i decide on what optic to go with, i am trying to figure out if i should learn to use Mil or MOA, because the scopes i have been looking at give you that option.

    I will be doing target shooting and also hunting with this rifle

    What would be the best to learn to use Mil or MOA?


    -Matt
     
  2. D.ID

    D.ID Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    838
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    50/50 ...............six one way and half a dozen the other. If your reticle and turrets match it is extra nice but the whole debate is largely overrated. Pick your poison based on personal preference because if your starting out without having bean trained on one or the other it does not matter which you choose, they both do the same thing in different fractions to come to the same end..
     

  3. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,238
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    If you are used to inches and yards go with MOA and you won't need to learn a different system. I have a Vortex 6-24x50mm PST MOA and it has functioned perfectly way out to 1,000 yds. and beyond. I also have a Vortex Custom Turret that is dead nuts accurate.

    joseph

    PS: Here is a picture of the custom turret with my zero set at 200 yds.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. ZSteinle

    ZSteinle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    919
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Yea if you are used to inches go with moa. Plus everyone will usually say "shot 1/2 moa or 1/4 moa". I have rarely heard "shoots under .3 mil"
     
  5. gamehawker

    gamehawker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    933
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    I would go with the measurement you are most used to, i.e., inches - MOA or Mils - MRAD.
     
  6. Villreinjeger

    Villreinjeger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    It's really a 50/50 provided you go either a moa reticle with moa adjustments, OR mil-dot/MLR with mRad adjustments.
    Americans are born and raised with inches, so if you know that best - stick with it.

    For the rest of us from overseas, that work in 1/10, it's way easier with mRad.

    I see a few mil-dot scopes with Moa adjustments. What a waste!

    You'll want to take the full potential of the scope, so don't mix them up..
     
  7. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    770
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    My preference is a reticle calibrated in mils in both axes like those made by Horus vision. With those twiddling knobs between targets is eliminated.
    [​IMG]
    Horus scope have knobs with 1/10 mil clicks but they're only used to zero the scope.
    1 mil = 1 yard at 1000 yards exact. 1 mil = 1 meter at 1000 meters exact. That works for any linear units.
     
  8. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,238
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    I wish you could explain this better.

    1 meter = 39.3700787 inches and 1 yard has 36 inches how is this exactly the same at 1,000 yards? I would think that 1 meter would be 3.3700787 inches longer.

    I would also think that 3.3700787 inches could cause a miss at 1,000 yds. if you were taking a head shot or keeping you out of the "X" ring and possible outside the 10 ring.

    Please correct me if I am incorrect.

    Thanks,

    joseph
     
  9. adnick

    adnick Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    A lifetime in the military gives me a little different point of view....

    Let me re-hash it a bit:

    MOA is just a subdivision of mils, just like mils is a subdivision of degrees....

    The whole thing is based on 6.283 radians or 21,600 minutes in 360 degs.... So 1 deg = 17.777 mils = 3.483 MOA

    NATO and the US Military uses 6400 mils per 360 deg (just rounded up a bit).

    The old Soviet system used 6000 mils, and the Swedish use to use 6300 mils, but I think they changed.

    You can choose which way you want to figure distance but if you are using a mil dot scope with moa adj then???:D
     
  10. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    770
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Read my post agian. At no point were yard mesurements compared to meter measurements. One mil is the portion of the circumference of a circle that is exactly 1/1000 of the radius of the circle. So when you see an object which subtends one mil in a scope you know that's it's 1000 times the distance of the linear dimension of that object. It makes no difference what units are used, so it works for meters, yards, cubits, or spans. You must use the same units for distance and target size, or include a conversion factor. People who think metric units find that easy. If you think in yards and decimal yards it's just as easy. If you think in yards of distance and inches of target size you'll have trouble in either the mil or MOA. However one mil at 1000 yards is exactly 36 inches. One MOA at 1000 yards is an irrational number of approximately 10.47" You'll never make things easy by mixing metric and english units.

    The mils on a Horus scope are the same mils used in a mil dot scope. The Horus reticle instead of just haveing two lines each 10 mils long fills in a grid over the entire usable shooting space. Therefore you don't move the reticle with respect to the rifle to aim. You simply move the target to the correct drop and windage of the reticles markings. You determine what the drop and windage need to be by the same method you'd determine how many mils you'd need to click the reticle on a mil-dot scope. But it's a lot quicker (and typically less error prone) then keeping track of clicks or reading scope turrets.
     
  11. adnick

    adnick Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
  12. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,238
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Thanks that helps.

    joseph