Tumbleweed
Well-Known Member
Simple math.
So 2.27 inches should apply to me because I have a rem 700 action and 30mm tube right?[/QUOTE]
Don't forget to figure in the thickness of your bases if you're doing it that way.
What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges
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So 2.27 inches should apply to me because I have a rem 700 action and 30mm tube right?[/QUOTE]
Don't forget to figure in the thickness of your bases if you're doing it that way.
seidersjoden
Well-Known Member
Don't forget to figure in the thickness of your bases if you're doing it that way.[/QUOTE]
Are you joking, what are you referring to?
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
Simple math.
So 2.27 inches should apply to me because I have a rem 700 action and 30mm tube right?[/QUOTE]
The .68 inch (1/2 diameter of Rem action) and the .59 inch (1/2 the diameter of the 30mm scope) is correct.
You will still need to measure your ring/base height. If that is exactly 1 inch, then yes, the 2.27 inch figure will be correct.
I simply used 1 indh to make things easier to understand. All of my guns (Rem and BAT) wear 30mm NF scopes with 56mm objective lenses. So I am closer to 2.4 - 2.5 inches, depending on which one you measure. My 1000 yard HG is closer to three inches, but with that gun I don't care and have never even attempted to measure.
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seidersjoden
Well-Known Member
The .68 inch (1/2 diameter of Rem action) and the .59 inch (1/2 the diameter of the 30mm scope) is correct.
You will still need to measure your ring/base height. If that is exactly 1 inch, then yes, the 2.27 inch figure will be correct.
I simply used 1 indh to make things easier to understand. All of my guns (Rem and BAT) wear 30mm NF scopes with 56mm objective lenses. So I am closer to 2.4 - 2.5 inches, depending on which one you measure. My 1000 yard HG is closer to three inches, but with that gun I don't care and have never even attempted to measure.[/QUOTE]
OK, got it, thanks for the advice 4xforfun.
-Joden
seidersjoden
Well-Known Member
OK, got it, thanks for the advice 4xforfun.
-Joden[/QUOTE]
Unrelated question. When shooting at the range and doing my ladder test, between ladders is it ok to use a bore snake on my Bartlein Barrel, do bore snakes hurt the barrel at all being that they are dry or should I use a rod with a wet patch?
Thanks
Joden
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
Unrelated question. When shooting at the range and doing my ladder test, between ladders is it ok to use a bore snake on my Bartlein Barrel, do bore snakes hurt the barrel at all being that they are dry or should I use a rod with a wet patch?
Thanks
Joden[/QUOTE]
When you do a ladder test you want everything the same. I usually do multiple ladder tests..here is my method.
Start with a clean gun. Shoot the test at longer ranges if at al possible. Min 300 yards. i shoot mine at either my 750 yard berm or at 1000.
Shoot at least five sighter/fowler/warm up shots. You need the tube warmed up before the first shot. Time your shots.... if you are shooting a big hot rod that heats things up fast, or it is very hot and calm, take 2 min between shots. Try keep the tube ROUGHLY the same temp.
When you are finished with the first....clean the gun...shoot the fowler/warm up shots and run the test backwards...high to low.
If you shoot a third..do it all again.
The point is that you want to keep all of the parameters of the tests as close to the same as you can. I don't worry about the wind, a tripple ladder test might take a couple of hours. And don't look at how groups of the same powder charge did, look for clusters of shots of DIFFERENT CHARGES that clumped together on the same target.
Good luck,
Tod
seidersjoden
Well-Known Member
When you do a ladder test you want everything the same. I usually do multiple ladder tests..here is my method.
Start with a clean gun. Shoot the test at longer ranges if at al possible. Min 300 yards. i shoot mine at either my 750 yard berm or at 1000.
Shoot at least five sighter/fowler/warm up shots. You need the tube warmed up before the first shot. Time your shots.... if you are shooting a big hot rod that heats things up fast, or it is very hot and calm, take 2 min between shots. Try keep the tube ROUGHLY the same temp.
When you are finished with the first....clean the gun...shoot the fowler/warm up shots and run the test backwards...high to low.
If you shoot a third..do it all again.
The point is that you want to keep all of the parameters of the tests as close to the same as you can. I don't worry about the wind, a tripple ladder test might take a couple of hours. And don't look at how groups of the same powder charge did, look for clusters of shots of DIFFERENT CHARGES that clumped together on the same target.
Good luck,
Tod[/QUOTE]
Great info, thanks for the help Todd
RandyinVa
Well-Known Member
I didn't read all the responses, but it is likely I don't agree with any of the responders to your question.
When you prepare for running your table, you take input from a temp gauge, a chronograph, etc, and enter them into your software. You likely will start with the manufacturers BC which of course is representative of a range of travel, such as 1-1000 yes, 2400-3500, 100-200, etc. and you will not know for what distance You might want a BC to 500, another to 1000, etc.
After your obligatory 100 yd work, go to the above distance you want to use for the BC, enter the BC in the book and enter EVERYTHING else exactly as you read it, distance, temp, altitude. Shoot and observe. Tweak the BC up or down until the trajectory meets the software solution at at least 2 points. One would likely do, but you will feel better to observe 2 on the money.
I have done an awful lot of long range varminting and misses on the vertical were extremely rare.
I will be shooting in 10 days at distances up to 3500 and have just reattached an external scope with different spacing on the feet so I need to do work at 100 for a base and then probably 1000 and working up by 500 yes at a time. My BC will continue to decline making me shoot even higher to make up for it. As I get it right at each distance I have the makings of determining the new BC for each longer distance.
Take copious notes with drawings so that all that is found out can become KNOWLEDGE.
I am anal about ballistics and blasé about most everything else! Go figure.
When you prepare for running your table, you take input from a temp gauge, a chronograph, etc, and enter them into your software. You likely will start with the manufacturers BC which of course is representative of a range of travel, such as 1-1000 yes, 2400-3500, 100-200, etc. and you will not know for what distance You might want a BC to 500, another to 1000, etc.
After your obligatory 100 yd work, go to the above distance you want to use for the BC, enter the BC in the book and enter EVERYTHING else exactly as you read it, distance, temp, altitude. Shoot and observe. Tweak the BC up or down until the trajectory meets the software solution at at least 2 points. One would likely do, but you will feel better to observe 2 on the money.
I have done an awful lot of long range varminting and misses on the vertical were extremely rare.
I will be shooting in 10 days at distances up to 3500 and have just reattached an external scope with different spacing on the feet so I need to do work at 100 for a base and then probably 1000 and working up by 500 yes at a time. My BC will continue to decline making me shoot even higher to make up for it. As I get it right at each distance I have the makings of determining the new BC for each longer distance.
Take copious notes with drawings so that all that is found out can become KNOWLEDGE.
I am anal about ballistics and blasé about most everything else! Go figure.
seidersjoden
Well-Known Member
All great info, I have the Kestral with Horus Ballistics that I csan use toi adjust BC as the range increase. I know to adjust for BC throug the transonic range but I was told to adjust MV just before transoinc to true the ballistics.
So I was trained to sight in the gun at a close range, then shoot a group out at thge farthest range I can shoot consistant groups with my skill, and if that group doesn't match up with ballistics the again change the MV. Then, any ballistics adjustment through transoninc ranges are only bc adjustments.
This method has worked for many operators in this field with this horus ballistics program.
Are you saying yo ojnly adjust MV at close range and everyting else is a BC adjustment.
Your thoughts on our mehtod??
Thanks
Joden
seidersjoden
Well-Known Member
Also confused on your 1st paragraph, could you break it down for me?
And do you do ladder tests or the Optimal Charge Weight (OCW)?
Thanks
Joden
RandyinVa
Well-Known Member
I think the answer is yes. The ladder test is to determine repeatability and the actual amount that a scope moves when clicked. THIS value goes into the software. If it is .219, so be it. We care not what the advertised click value is advertised at. i did not cover that variable. The actual click value and the actual temp, elevation, and speed at the muzzle may not be exact but youi have NO reason to alter them.To make a parabola match a print out over distance, tweak the BC which is close to an average over some range till it matches.
If you are working up a load and you change one thing at a time and at some point take the lesser of evils and go to another variable to adjust for better.worse result. You don't change two things at the same time. Your variance from actual to fps, elevation, etc. are not measurable. The BC for a given piece of ground is determined by ACTUAL splashes. Don't even consider using changes to anything else without observing their actual change such as fps at different elevations.
One variable is enough to give you a headache. Two is virtually impossible to make work for more than ONE instance.
Hope this helps.
If you are working up a load and you change one thing at a time and at some point take the lesser of evils and go to another variable to adjust for better.worse result. You don't change two things at the same time. Your variance from actual to fps, elevation, etc. are not measurable. The BC for a given piece of ground is determined by ACTUAL splashes. Don't even consider using changes to anything else without observing their actual change such as fps at different elevations.
One variable is enough to give you a headache. Two is virtually impossible to make work for more than ONE instance.
Hope this helps.
RandyinVa
Well-Known Member
Yu don't need to adjust bc for subsonic entry and beyond. Your software does it very well. You are looking for something close to an average bc across the range you are actively shooting. It is of course not a real average since some manufacturers list bc for out to 300, 300-600, etc. Don't go chasing this game or you may end up eating a gun barrel!
