What caliber for a sheep rifle?

[bjlooper]

I'm expecting delivery on my sheep rifle in the next month or two.I decided to go with the 300 WSW, the 270 WSW was a close second. I wanted a round that would fit in a short action, it's the cheapest way to save a little weight.
I'm using a Borden Alpine action, Rifle Basic trigger. 24" #2 Rock Creek barrel, Hi-Tec Sheep Hunter stock. The rifle w/o scope or ammo should weigh around 5 lbs. Talley light weight rings and basses, with a leupold VXIII 2.5X8 will add less than a pound.
Dr B

 

[bjlooper]

[ QUOTE ]
These are more then you need for sheep but in sheep country it is often windy. Alot of times VERY windy with alot of updrafts, down drafts and multidirectional winds. The high BC bullets would help greatly in these conditions yet still they are not so heavy that recoil would be severe.
Kirby Allen(50)

[/ QUOTE ]

Kirby how would the high BC help in the wind? The only factor that affects wind drift or drop is Time of flight. The only way BC affects wind drift or drop is buy changing time of flight. In a given caliber it generally take a longer distance than 500 yds for a heavy slower high BC bullet to ovecome a lighter faster Lower BC bullet. Which means When if bullets are shoot at the exact same time which every bullet that reaches the target first will have least drift and drop.
Dr B

 

[Fiftydriver]

Srhaggerty,

Do not get caught up in the belief that a short action is dramatically lighter then a long action because that simply is not the case when the rifle is designed properly. Most of your rifle weight will be made up in the barrel, stock and then scope you decide to mount in the saddles. The difference in receivers, at least Rem 700 receivers is very minimal and not really even worth considering.

Yes a 22" barrel would work fine but again look at the weight you would loose compared to a 24" barrel. With the light contour barrels you would be using your talking less then a couple ounces is all. I would take two more ounces for the added performance personally but thats me.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

BJlooper,

WHAT????

Did you just say what I think you said, BC has nothing to do with wind drift, only time of flight????

I must have read that wrong.

One simple example, even out to a relatively short range is comparing my 7mm AM loaded with 160 gr Accubonds and 200 gr ULD RBBTs. The 160 gr Accubonds can be loaded to 3500 fps comfortably and the 200 gr ULD can be loaded to 3250 fps comfortably as well.

With the same conditions and a 10 mph cross wind, here are the stats for the 160 gr pill at 500 yards:

Time of flight.......0.488 seconds
Wind drift...........10.8"
Retained velocity....2747 fps
retained energy......2680 ft/lbs

For the much slower 200 gr ULD RBBT

Time of Flight.......0.501 seconds
Wind drift...........7.1"
Retained velocity....2753 fps
Retained energy......3365 ft/lbs

As you can see the time of flight is significantly longer for the slower 200 gr ULD RBBT but wind drift is over 30% less at 500 yards. Velocity is nearly identical at 500 yards between the two but the energy is dramatically in favor of the higher BC slower starting bullet.

Another example, lets take the 243 loaded with a 105 gr A-max at only 3000 fps and a 75 gr V-Max at 3500 fps.

At 500 yards this is what you get:

75 gr V-Max
Time of Flight.......0.541 sec
Wind drift...........20.0"
Retained velocity....2204 fps
Retained energy......809 ft/lbs

105 gr A-max
Time of Flight.......0.585 sec
Wind Drift...........15.1"
Retained velocity....2193 fps
Retained energy......1121 ft/lbs

I could do this with every caliber out there comparing higher BC bullets at lower velocities to high velocity lower BC bullets.

I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion and statement that BC has nothing to do with wind drift. That is about as far from what actually occurs in bullet flight as you can get. BC effect wind drift as much or more so then any other aspect of bullet flight.

SO back to my original starting statement, "WHAT????"

Please explain your opinion on the matter a bit more I would be interested in the basis of your comments. I would agree, that as far as bullet drop you may have a point but concerning wind drift you are incorrect in my opinion from what I have actually seen testing high BC bullets against high velocity conventional BC bullets.

Bullet drop is consistant and easy to figure. Wind drift is what will kick your rear and the higher the BC the bullet the less effect the wind will have at any velocity.

I will take more bullet drop then wind drift any day of the week!!

Are you confusing bullet drop and wind drift concerning BC?? If you were arguing bullet drop I think you would have a more solid point.

Good Shooting,

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

BC dont have a thing to do with drift huh? WOW, where have I been all these years?!?! I wonder if hes just trying to pull our tail, ha ha. I dont think I read it right either. Well if you rightfully think so, I"m sure you'll find out sooner or later that heavy bullets buck the wind better.

 

[TMR]

You mean I had this all wrong? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just as Kirby has show, wind drift is one of the many advantages of a high BC bullet. It also will generally retain more energy than a lower BC bullet, oh yeah, they shoot flatter to.

 

[srhaggerty]

Man 13 lbs. You must be an iron man. I assume you are going after dall's?

I agree with the barrel life. It is a good thing to be conscious of, but for the intent of this rifle and the amount of shooting it will see. I doubt it is a concern. It will certainly be shot and it may take a lifetime to draw a tag or it may take me one year like my mountain goat. I think cost of shooting my be something more to consider here than barrel life.

Thanks for your thoughts. It certainly gives me something to think about. I do however like the 280 AI idea so far.

 

[srhaggerty]

Dawba my gun safe consists of a 277AM and that is it at the moment. It is just a heavier rifle than I think I want to pack.

Although it might be a cool thing to shoot a grand slam with the 277AM. I hadn't given that a thought.

 

[srhaggerty]

Longdraw1970,

I completely agree and understand. I hunt elk with a bow, I know alot about mental toughness.

In my opinion physical fitness is a given, but as a guide you have a way better perspective as to who goes sheep hunting. I have many good sheep hunter friends and will certainly be ready physically.

As for the rifle. My gun case is sad for the amount of rifle I have. However the one I do have is fantastic, I would like lighter. And heck why not build another rifle, can't have to many IMHO.

 

[srhaggerty]

Kirby,

I didn't think about the short action for the weight issue really.

AS for the 22" barrel my thought was packing that baby 10 miles a day and it being awkward to carry. When I shot the Mnt Goat with the 270AM it was interesting on that scary terrain with a 30" barrel.

 

[Michael Eichele]

[ QUOTE ]
Re: What caliber for a sheep rifle? [Re: meichele]
#125399 - 10/20/06 07:25 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Here's what I used for my Grand Slam:

Dall--.30-06, 150 Nosler Partition, one shot, dumped in his tracks.
Stone--7mm Rem Mag, 140 Nosler Parttion, one shot, dumped in his tracks.
Desert Bighorn--25-06, 120 Nosler Partition, one shot, ran 40 yds.
Rocky Mnt Bighorn--.284 Win, 140 Nosler Partition, one shot, did a back flip.

Look in your gun safe.....you already have a sheep rifle. They have no constitution and any whitetail cartridge will work. Only the desert ram was further than 150 yds, 280 yds in this case. Last Sunday, I also shot a trophy elk at 280 yds in Arizona, but with a .338 Win Mag. I wouldn't shoot a sheep with a .22 calibre cartridge, nor a whitetail either. Dave



[/ QUOTE ]

The Sunday before 10-20-2006 was the 15th of October. I am curious as to what trophy bull elk you were hunting on October 15th in Arizona.

 

[dawaba]

I had 9 bonus points (meaning 9 unsuccessful drawings) for elk in Arizona when I got drawn this year. I hunted the second rifle season in Unit 18B. The bulls were on the downhill side of the rut but were still bugling. Broken tines and broken beams were a big problem. Good hunt, though, as Arizona manages for quality, not quantity....Dave

 

[Michael Eichele]

Hunt 3099.

I understand that it is very hard to wait for the cream of the crop tags in AZ with all the big bulls that are killed there each year. With 9 points, next time hold out for a few more years and draw a premium permit. You wont be sorry. Dont settle for a limited opprotunity hunt.

Any pictures?? BTW, congrats.

 

[dawaba]

Michael.....Since this is a sheep thread, I've sent you a PM......Dave