UK gunsmiths and custom rifle builders refusing to work on Bergara rifles because of their poor quality

3 of us all have B-14 in 6.5 C and also 2 in 6.5 PRC's, we and I've found that they shoot so well at distance I'm not going to complain about the bolt or action much. The best actions in my feeble opinion is the Mauser .33/40 or K model, same action X cept for the bold, and some milling. But these are butter smooth, guess that's why a world war 1 company copied them. We have never had a issue with any B-14's but heard some have the bolt handles break off. Some people can find issues with anything. Brits can bitch about anything, why we came to the New World, lol
 
Today i was involved in a conversation on a british hunting forum. It was a purely recreational topic: the most overrated hunting rifles on the market. At some point people started bashing remington as usual until a guy, who seem to be a pretty famous custom rifle builder in the UK, said that bergaras are so bad he even refuses to work on them if a customer wanna use one for a project. Someone else suddenly said "Reports are dodgy Quality control, wildly variable accuracy, poor metal quality. A couple of well known riflesmiths I know (one may or may not post on here a bit) refuse to use components-one stating he "wouldn't grow tomatoes up one".

I never heard anything this extreme. Of course, multiple members popped up reinforcing what this smith said, even saying that most gunsmiths and custom rifles builder the UK refuse to work with these rifles. Someone said Bergaras have a very bad reputation and I shouldn't be surprised About what i was reading.

I am wondering if this phenomenon, which i am really doubtful exists, especially to the extent some guys stated on that forum, exists in the US. I should add that i wrote in that forum a few months ago, before purchasing my last rifle, to ask about bergaras and the general consensus was positive even there (?).

my experience with b14s is limited to a handful of rifles and was great for what is worth

Thanks!!
The internet is full of supposed experts, believe half of what you see and nothing you read.
 
These days QC is suffering everywhere in just about every industry more than in the past simply because it costs less to do less and it's all about profits, especially as more and more gun companies become owned not by gun folks, but investment groups. Sometimes lack of QC is as simple as not having enough employees to do the job and make deadlines, sometimes it's a lazy/disgruntle employee, sometimes it's a rogue manager putting demands on those doing the work so they feel they cannot meet timelines unless they cut QC, sometimes it's simply the company deciding to cut it to save $.

The sad part is, manufacturers know that the vast majority of guys buying their guns, unless they are custom/super premium, probably can't shoot that well, at best might experiment with 2-3 different ammo types, doesn't handload, own a borescope or chrono, and will probably never shoot the rifle at a target longer than 100-200 yds. I still see guys every weekend at the range shooting 2-3" groups with a centerfire rifle off a road up jacket using factory ammo, and they are okay with it. Those of us that are disappointed a rifle won't shoot better than 1 MOA are still the vast minority of customers.

So when you factor all that in, you can cut a lot of corners and still not get many rifles returned, the few that you do get returned, you fix and move on.

We were talking about barrels the other day as I just had to send a new Wilson Combat 224 barrel back because the last 10" or so had what appears to be red corrosion and the gas port had chip outs / burrs in it from the factory. Now of course the corrosion could have happened after the barrel left WC, but the gas port issues sure didn't Kind of sad when you see WC's own video on barrel production where they show barrels being scoped twice, including at final inspection. There's no one way someone did that with this barrel you could feel the burrs as an obstruction to the bore scope when I looked at it. Even more interesting is they didn't replace the barrel they "brushed out the light discoloration, and cleaned up the gas port burrs". I'd be willing to bet what gets returned looks like crap.

However it's about math sadly, probably less than 1 in 100,000 gun owners owns a bore scope, even though they are now less than $100. Some break in and cleaning and maybe that barrel shoots okay for most, others might get frustrated and sell it, or trash it, but the vast majority will not be able to scope it and return it, especially when WC only has a 90 day warranty. Not to mention that most guys if they care about accuracy and don't own a borescope, they are going to buy $500 in ammo trying to find one that shoots really well in a bad barrel. So if WC sends out 100 barrels like that, instead of scrapping them, maybe they get 5-10 back tops, and if all they do is brush out the rust, and clean up the gas port and send it back out, they are $$$ ahead as opposed to making sure the barrel passed good QC standards before shipping in the first place.

The real sad part is we see tons of posts about barrels that look like crap inside, and it doesn't take long for people to come out of the woodwork and say "It doesn't matter what it looks like inside, how does it shoot?" However the bottom line is, given all things equal, a barrel that's got issues internally will never perform as well as one that doesn't. Gun manufacturers probably hate that bore scopes are now easy and cheap to obtain because it sheds a lot of light on how bad some of these barrels are internally, where 20 years ago even a lot of small gunsmiths didn't have borescopes.
 
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The internet is full of supposed experts, believe half of what you see and nothing you read.

It's true, but not just on the negative, the positive as well. You'd be amazed how many manufacturing employees, reps and sponsored shooters are on forums and sites posting overly positive things/reviews about the brands they are paid/sponsored to represent in an overly positive light. One of the best things industry did was convince people that reviews and negative feedback posted about them is not to be believed and that for every bad thing you read there's10,000 good things you didn't and that people only post negative things not positive.

Influencing is an industry that goes far beyond just social media sites.
 
Today i was involved in a conversation on a british hunting forum. It was a purely recreational topic: the most overrated hunting rifles on the market. At some point people started bashing remington as usual until a guy, who seem to be a pretty famous custom rifle builder in the UK, said that bergaras are so bad he even refuses to work on them if a customer wanna use one for a project. Someone else suddenly said "Reports are dodgy Quality control, wildly variable accuracy, poor metal quality. A couple of well known riflesmiths I know (one may or may not post on here a bit) refuse to use components-one stating he "wouldn't grow tomatoes up one".

I never heard anything this extreme. Of course, multiple members popped up reinforcing what this smith said, even saying that most gunsmiths and custom rifles builder the UK refuse to work with these rifles. Someone said Bergaras have a very bad reputation and I shouldn't be surprised About what i was reading.

I am wondering if this phenomenon, which i am really doubtful exists, especially to the extent some guys stated on that forum, exists in the US. I should add that i wrote in that forum a few months ago, before purchasing my last rifle, to ask about bergaras and the general consensus was positive even there (?).

my experience with b14s is limited to a handful of rifles and was great for what is worth

Thanks!!
I only own one Bergara, The HMR PRO 6.5PRC and although Ive rebarreled it after I wore out the barrel. The rifle is very nice.Ive got no complaints at all.It shoots great and always has.The Triggertech trigger is real nice.I even like the stock enough to have my smith trim iot out to accept my new heavy Bartlein barrel.
I cant say enough good things about mine.
The B14 is the lower end.The HMR Pro is the upper end of Bergara. I don t have much experience with Many Bergaras.Just with my one.They are like any OVER THe COUNTER rifle...Mass Produced...That telkls you all you need to know.One of us may get a Diamoind and the other person a LEMON..Its the luck of the draw.
 
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I had one a few years ago... will not have another. The base of my brass would pick expansion groves for about 1/4" long running vertical with the brass. Sent an email about it and the problem with reloading brass brass again and was told if I reload it will void the warranty on the rifle. "Well, bye."

Found one of the brass my Bergara has ruined - Picture included. Really disappointed in the company not standing by their product and telling me that reloading voids my warranty. No, "Let's get that fixed" or anything like that at all... just simply my warranty would be void.

I can't tell anyone what to buy. Maybe I just caught the worker on a rough day... they could have reached back out, though, if they really cared about product reputation and customer satisfaction.
 

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They told me that rust wasn't covered even after I told them it was a brand new, right out of the box rifle.
Had this happen to a buddy with another company, it was pretty minor and not internal to the barrel so he cleaned it up and lived with it.

It's a good lesson though, always, always inspect before acceptance. If it's at a gun store or a FFL, etc. I know a lot of guys now that since a good bore scope is under $100, they will take it to a gun store and cherry pick the best looking barrel of what they have. You'd be amazed the variation in internal barrel quality across most factory companies from example to example. I'm sure gun companies hate the fact bore scopes are so cheap now, cause it's shedding a lot of light on how bad many barrels are coming. They've enjoyed that for decades 99.99% of shooters never ever knew what the inside of their barrel looked like.
 
I'm not running a bore scope down a barrel in a store. If a company is fine with shipping garbages, then they're a garbage company. Remington, Browning, Savage, Ruger, Winchester, none of them have ever had a rusted bore when I scoped it later.

Instead of being QC for Bergara I stopped buying imported junk and buy quality US (and the occasional Canadian) barrels. Bergara is discount Euro trash.
 
I'm not running a bore scope down a barrel in a store. If a company is fine with shipping garbages, then they're a garbage company. Remington, Browning, Savage, Ruger, Winchester, none of them have ever had a rusted bore when I scoped it later.

Instead of being QC for Bergara I stopped buying imported junk and buy quality US (and the occasional Canadian) barrels. Bergara is discount Euro trash.
Yep, have to agree, if they wouldn't stand behind their own rifle's quality, I'd be done with them and the store that sold it.Think almost every new rifle have ever bought, whatever the brand, the factory shipped it with some type of preservative in the barrel and they would recommend cleaning barrel first, before use.
 
I've seen both, I've seen guns at all price points arrive both wet with oil/preserve and bone dry, always a good reason to clean/lube any new gun. I've seen ugly barrel defects in basically every major brand out there, even high dollars guns with accuracy guarantees. Rust is pretty rare, but I've seen barrels arrive with rust/pitting in them from respected companies, including a JP 5.56 barrel I bought directly from JP. That said the difference is JP has stellar customer service.

I do agree that once I have a problem with a company I'll never deal with them again, I've been fighting Beretta to get a Sako S20 fixed for months now. Love my TRG, but I'll never buy another Beretta/Sako/Tikka again because dealing with Beretta isn't worth the hassle. Sadly these days companies are trying to find any loophole they can to avoid covering products. It's all about profits, and the less product quality and product support = more profit unless it gets so out of hand it hurts the brand reputation/sales, which is unlikely.

Buddy works at a GM dealer, the last couple years they've been amazed how far GM is going now to try and deny warranty claims. They recently had someone denied warranty on an engine issue that likely had nothing to do with oil (GM 6.2's are known to eat lifters like fat kids eat cake) but because he could not provide just one of his oil change dated receipts with mileage (wasn't done at a GM dealer) GM denied covering it.
 
I've seen both, I've seen guns at all price points arrive both wet with oil/preserve and bone dry, always a good reason to clean/lube any new gun. I've seen ugly barrel defects in basically every major brand out there, even high dollars guns with accuracy guarantees. Rust is pretty rare, but I've seen barrels arrive with rust/pitting in them from respected companies, including a JP 5.56 barrel I bought directly from JP. That said the difference is JP has stellar customer service.

I do agree that once I have a problem with a company I'll never deal with them again, I've been fighting Beretta to get a Sako S20 fixed for months now. Love my TRG, but I'll never buy another Beretta/Sako/Tikka again because dealing with Beretta isn't worth the hassle. Sadly these days companies are trying to find any loophole they can to avoid covering products. It's all about profits, and the less product quality and product support = more profit unless it gets so out of hand it hurts the brand reputation/sales, which is unlikely.

Buddy works at a GM dealer, the last couple years they've been amazed how far GM is going now to try and deny warranty claims. They recently had someone denied warranty on an engine issue that likely had nothing to do with oil (GM 6.2's are known to eat lifters like fat kids eat cake) but because he could not provide just one of his oil change dated receipts with mileage (wasn't done at a GM dealer) GM denied covering it.
Someone keep on saying bergara is cheap euro trash, never seen such bad barrels, and suddenly another member pops up and says he has seen issues with barrels of any major brand. Weird things happening on forums sometimes. At the end if the rifle is accurate and durable i couldn't care less about how the internal of the bore looks. It's a tool, it must work, that's it. If you want a piece of art don't buy a sub 1k dollars rifle.
 
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