To Bed or Not Bed the Recoil Lug in New McMillian Edge Stock
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Joel Russo
Well-Known Member
YES! Your action screws cannot touch the inside of the pillars or they will act like an additional recoil lug.
If you are going to use the existing pillars, you should open up the inside diameter after you have finished the bedding. A drill press will work fine.
It' s not uncommon for the inlet to be off center in the stock...I've seen my share of "crooked stuff". Either mill, Dremel, or sand away enough material in the action area to properly align the barreled action in the stock. I free float the action in the stock so there is no chance of binding. You can use the "tape on the barrel trick" here. Then proceed to bedding, then address the id of the pillars.
I have a touch of that OCD disease as well, but I'm finding that the older I get the less severe it is.
Shot the gun for the first time today. All that's been done to the gun is the new Edge stock, a Jewell trigger, Talley rings and a Leupold VX-II 6-18x40mm scope. I have not tried to bed it yet.
These were my two final 100 yard five shoot groups after breaking it in.
Some might think this are fine, but I'm still thinking it can do better. I plan on bedding it soon, but I wonder what things a gunsmith can do to wring out a little more accuracy (things that I can't do) before I bed it. I'd like to keep the stock barrel, but would swap it out if I can't get to where I want it to go.
Which of these would people say could garner the best results in accuracy for the money spent?
-True bolt lugs
-True receiver lugs
-Square receiver to barrel
-Check crown and possibly re-crown
-Larger recoil lug (i.e. Tubbs, Kampfield, etc.)
-???
These were my two final 100 yard five shoot groups after breaking it in.
Some might think this are fine, but I'm still thinking it can do better. I plan on bedding it soon, but I wonder what things a gunsmith can do to wring out a little more accuracy (things that I can't do) before I bed it. I'd like to keep the stock barrel, but would swap it out if I can't get to where I want it to go.
Which of these would people say could garner the best results in accuracy for the money spent?
-True bolt lugs
-True receiver lugs
-Square receiver to barrel
-Check crown and possibly re-crown
-Larger recoil lug (i.e. Tubbs, Kampfield, etc.)
-???
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Idaho Sawyer
Well-Known Member
From your list I would say the larger recoil lug is by far the least important. A true and square action are very important, But I feel you will see great improvements with a good bed job and some load tuning, If you feel like an additional at home project you can also lap the lugs, just go easy and keep track with calipers, so you dont take off to much. I haven't seen a McMillian yet that didn't need some type of inletting and bedding.
7stw
Well-Known Member
Bwht4x4, I hope not to throw a wrench in the pie, but as far as the barrel being off center in the channel, it COULD be the stock, but it can also be the holes in the action not being drilled and tapped on true center with the bore line, OR, if the lug is slightly out of position, when the barrel was tightened against it. But more then likely, if it is NOT the stock, it is probably the holes being slightly off true centerline.
I had a 700p a few years back, and that is what it was. They ended up replacing the receiver.
MarcS
Active Member
I agree with everything Joel has said on this.
About your questions as to what you should do next, I think bedding is about the only thing I would advise. The other work you mentioned about lapping lugs and truing things will change headspace slightly. That would require a little bit of barrel work and I don't believe it's worth it to spend money for a smith to work on a factory barrel. I always advise customers to save that money and just shoot it until they're ready to pay for a new barrel. It will need one someday anyway and it's a much better investment. It's what really makes the biggest difference in a rifle anyway.
I would put the barreled action in the stock and carefully trace around the tang with a very sharp pencil. Then use a dremel to rough up the surface areas in the stock bed area obviously staying inside of the traced line around the tang. Leave no factory paint remaining and leave it rough. This will probably allow the barrel to sit straight down the channel.
Wrap some layers of tape around the action screws so they fit kind of snug inside of the pillars, not real tight, just kind of snug. Trim that tape off at or just below where the screw sticks out of the pillar. I use seperate, shorter screws for this. You can get them at the hardware store (they're 1/4X28) and trim them to length. This will keep the screws centered in the pillars and keeps excess epoxy from getting all over the screws and into the pillar.
Put the screws through the pillars and screw them into the receiver then see if it will fit into the stock. If it fits with no problem it's ready to bed.
Put a layer of masking tape on the front, sides and bottom of the recoil lug for clearance later. Trim tight with an Exacto blade. It might not be a bad idea to put a few layers of tape around the barrel out at the end of the fore end, but not enough to where the barrel fits tight and not so much as to force it into center if it doesn't want to go there. If it wants to sit a little off center then let it do that and sand out the channel later as Joel said. It's important to make sure the barreled action sits completely relaxed and stress free as it cures.
Remove those pillars and apply release agent to the action and screws then put them back on and bed it. Try to smooth it all out so that you reduce the air bubbles. Spread it on the sides of the pillars too. Once you squeeze it down into the stock, look to see if the pillars are flat or even better slightly protruding down on the bottom side of the stock. You'll want to make sure that the bottom metal makes contact with the bottom of the pillars. If they don't, unscrew them one at a time and put a small washer in there then gently tighten the screws so it pulls the action and pillars down. Once you feel it snug from the pillar making contact with the washer stop. No need to gorilla torque it.
I'm sorry for rambling I realize that's WAY more than you asked for but I'd bet if you do that it will shoot noticeably better.
Marc
About your questions as to what you should do next, I think bedding is about the only thing I would advise. The other work you mentioned about lapping lugs and truing things will change headspace slightly. That would require a little bit of barrel work and I don't believe it's worth it to spend money for a smith to work on a factory barrel. I always advise customers to save that money and just shoot it until they're ready to pay for a new barrel. It will need one someday anyway and it's a much better investment. It's what really makes the biggest difference in a rifle anyway.
I would put the barreled action in the stock and carefully trace around the tang with a very sharp pencil. Then use a dremel to rough up the surface areas in the stock bed area obviously staying inside of the traced line around the tang. Leave no factory paint remaining and leave it rough. This will probably allow the barrel to sit straight down the channel.
Wrap some layers of tape around the action screws so they fit kind of snug inside of the pillars, not real tight, just kind of snug. Trim that tape off at or just below where the screw sticks out of the pillar. I use seperate, shorter screws for this. You can get them at the hardware store (they're 1/4X28) and trim them to length. This will keep the screws centered in the pillars and keeps excess epoxy from getting all over the screws and into the pillar.
Put the screws through the pillars and screw them into the receiver then see if it will fit into the stock. If it fits with no problem it's ready to bed.
Put a layer of masking tape on the front, sides and bottom of the recoil lug for clearance later. Trim tight with an Exacto blade. It might not be a bad idea to put a few layers of tape around the barrel out at the end of the fore end, but not enough to where the barrel fits tight and not so much as to force it into center if it doesn't want to go there. If it wants to sit a little off center then let it do that and sand out the channel later as Joel said. It's important to make sure the barreled action sits completely relaxed and stress free as it cures.
Remove those pillars and apply release agent to the action and screws then put them back on and bed it. Try to smooth it all out so that you reduce the air bubbles. Spread it on the sides of the pillars too. Once you squeeze it down into the stock, look to see if the pillars are flat or even better slightly protruding down on the bottom side of the stock. You'll want to make sure that the bottom metal makes contact with the bottom of the pillars. If they don't, unscrew them one at a time and put a small washer in there then gently tighten the screws so it pulls the action and pillars down. Once you feel it snug from the pillar making contact with the washer stop. No need to gorilla torque it.
I'm sorry for rambling I realize that's WAY more than you asked for but I'd bet if you do that it will shoot noticeably better.
Marc
Thanks Marc for all of this info and especially your opinion on the barrel/action work. I was in the same camp as you on this. The few hundred of dollars spent on doing this work could be spent on a new barrel, which would be a totally different animal for sure. In fact I think this rifle could be the perfect hunting rifle with a new barrel, IMO.
In the interim I think I'll try to bed it and see if that helps the accuracy a bit. If it does, then I'll leave it. If I can't get it to shrink a bit I may have to figure out a new barrel. Any recommendations on new barrels if I have to go that route? I was leaning toward either a Lilja or Krieger and was thinking of going up to a 26" barrel.
MarcS
Active Member
I use Bartlein the most but Brux, Krieger, Obermeyer, and Broughton are some other good ones. Just about any of them would be far better than a factory barrel. Not just in accuracy but in how easy they are to clean because they're hand lapped and the finish in the bore is so smooth and slick that a factory barrel seems as rough as a cob in comparison.
My personal .300's are cut to 26" and I don't like to hunt with a brake so that's where I leave them.
Marc
My personal .300's are cut to 26" and I don't like to hunt with a brake so that's where I leave them.
Marc
Marc,
The last call I made to Krieger a few weeks ago ended up with them telling me they were 5-6 months out on getting a barrel. What about the wait with Bartlein or the other companies you mentioned? What about Lilja or Shilen?
I'd consider a new barrel if I could get it done much sooner than that. Hunting season is approaching and I don't want to be sidelined if I'm waiting for a new barrel. I have another gun to use, but what fun would that be, lol?
The last call I made to Krieger a few weeks ago ended up with them telling me they were 5-6 months out on getting a barrel. What about the wait with Bartlein or the other companies you mentioned? What about Lilja or Shilen?
I'd consider a new barrel if I could get it done much sooner than that. Hunting season is approaching and I don't want to be sidelined if I'm waiting for a new barrel. I have another gun to use, but what fun would that be, lol?
Contact Greg Young at Southern Precision Rifles........
He has high quality barrels in stock...... McMillan stocks and other goodies....
BARRELS
I bought 4 barrels from him in the last 8 months and a McMillan stock, all were received within 7 days of payment.... and this is all the way to Alaska via USPS priority mail.................
Greg called me personally on several of those occasions and was very easy to talk to and I will be ordering several more barrels in the next few months
He has high quality barrels in stock...... McMillan stocks and other goodies....
BARRELS
I bought 4 barrels from him in the last 8 months and a McMillan stock, all were received within 7 days of payment.... and this is all the way to Alaska via USPS priority mail.................
Greg called me personally on several of those occasions and was very easy to talk to and I will be ordering several more barrels in the next few months
MarcS
Active Member
Thats true Greg is a good guy and stocks many barrels. Bruno's shooters supply is also a good source for Kriegers. I've had customers buy from them and ship directly to me many times. With Bruno's you have to call since they do not update the website. All of the barrel makers are pushed out to long wait periods right now. If you buy one off of the shelf like that you might not be able to get the exact specs you want so prepare to be a little bit flexible on contour. If its long obviously it can be cut shorter since we have to cut off an inch anyway. Might be a good idea to look at the manufacturers contour pages to get an idea of which ones you'd be willing to use so you know before you call.
So I bedded the action yesterday. It's a strange feeling taking a dremel and prepping the very expensive stock before the bedding job and then after to clean it up. It didn't turn out 100% perfect as the barrel still isn't centered and the bolt release rubs now on the trigger guard. I know what caused this issue and both of these are things I'm going to have to live with now.
However, the difference in the way the stock feels is incredible. Before it felt a little loose and hollow and held together with bolts. Now it feels like a solid welded or monolithically formed piece of equipment. Anxious to see how it shoots.
However, the difference in the way the stock feels is incredible. Before it felt a little loose and hollow and held together with bolts. Now it feels like a solid welded or monolithically formed piece of equipment. Anxious to see how it shoots.
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I hit the range today for the first time since bedding it and the groups looks like they've tightened up a bit. To the point of being satisfactory and I don't think I'm going to do anything else to the gun. I shot a 7 shot group and pulled a couple of them.
I also wanted to see how the gun felt out to 200 yards and I ended up shooting a 1.47" group. Not bad for someone that shoots maybe 20-30 rounds a year and with a new gun. Most guys can do better but it's less than MOA and I'll take that for a hunting gun any day.
I also wanted to see how the gun felt out to 200 yards and I ended up shooting a 1.47" group. Not bad for someone that shoots maybe 20-30 rounds a year and with a new gun. Most guys can do better but it's less than MOA and I'll take that for a hunting gun any day.
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westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
Don't know exactly what scope you have, but does it have a side focus or adjustable objective to correct parallax ? If it does not, then you should check very carefully if you are experiencing parallax at 100 yards, the distance most scopes are supposed to be "corrected" for. I have bought some pretty expensive scopes that did not have side focus or AO and amazingly enough, they had a huge parallax problem at 100 yards. If you put the rifle in the rest and get it aligned with the target and then, without touching it at all, move your eye in a circle around the eyepiece (up/down/left/right) and see if the position of the cross hair on the target appears to move. The Minnox scope I had (brand new) showed about 2 min of parallax at 100 yards when I did this.
If you have parallax issues you will never shoot good groups. It seems you have a good trigger, so that should not be the issue either. The final thing is comfort/alignment of your face/eye with the scope before taking the shot and having the butt of the rifle firmly in your shoulder. I find it is easy to have a lot of variance when shooting off a bench compared to shooting prone, since only a small part of your body weight is behind the gun when shooting off a bench. The ideal scope position is also different for prone shooting compared to off the bench.
Other than that it is just a matter of practice and avoiding flinch.
If you have parallax issues you will never shoot good groups. It seems you have a good trigger, so that should not be the issue either. The final thing is comfort/alignment of your face/eye with the scope before taking the shot and having the butt of the rifle firmly in your shoulder. I find it is easy to have a lot of variance when shooting off a bench compared to shooting prone, since only a small part of your body weight is behind the gun when shooting off a bench. The ideal scope position is also different for prone shooting compared to off the bench.
Other than that it is just a matter of practice and avoiding flinch.
