The reason for my HIGH Prssure

[AZShooter]

Seeing you are having a dialog with the gunsmith see if you can get a print of the reamer's specs. If nothing else get the chamber neck diameter (which you may already have) and the length of the portion of the chamber end where the neck sits. You may have not have to trim your brass for quite a while depending on that dimension. If you cannot get the "end of the chamber" value you can use Sinclair's tool to KNOW.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...s/sinclair-chamber-length-gage-prod32925.aspx

Varmint Al has a good write up on this. In fact he has specs for making your own plugs if you have a lathe.

Varmint Al's Handloading/Reloading Page

It is part of knowing your rifle's chamber. I don't trim to the lengths specified in the loading manuals, but use my measurements as a guide just as Varmint Al page suggests.

While you are there check out all of Al's reloading page. He does a good job explaining things.

 

[FEENIX]

I talked to the Smith today and was very impressed with what he had to say............
Lets just say I have a lot to learn and made some mistakes. He wants me to send
my rifle back to him and he will do what is needed and ship it back.
Im also sending him five of my berger 105's from my lot and five fired cases and five loaded one............to check them out.

As frustrating as this has been it has been a positive learning experience. Unless you know someone that is very knowledgeable In Advance Reloading we all learn through trial and error.
What I did learn is that When your Smith suggests that you fire form using 40gr of H4350 and a 105 seated like the Dummy round he sent . DO IT....................For me it was just that H4350 was no where to be found ..................

The way this rifle shoots I just can not imagine getting another rifle that he did not build.........................The problem was ME. The problem I might have created was a Carbon Ring, ...................Don't ask me what that is.............

Greg

Greg,

This is why I said on your other thread to slow down until you figure out all the challenges but you took offense when I did so.

If there's one thing I learned from this site since joining, there's always people that are far more knowledgeable and more experienced than I am and they are almost always willing and able to lend a hand. Those that chimed in are just some of the many SMEs we have in this site ... and I'm constantly learning from them and for that I'm very thankful.

I too am glad you're finally coming to a resolve. Good luck!

Ed

 

[Greg Duerr]

I still don't understand why the necks on my fired cases were so tight. They were tight enough that they did not need to be re sized. In the past a fired case's neck had expanded enough that you you could slid a bullet into the neck .

The Smith did not have these issues when Fire Forming and testing the Rifle...............

 

[Outlaw6.0]

.....

If there's one thing I learned from this site since joining, there's always people that are far more knowledgeable and more experienced than I am and they are almost always willing and able to lend a hand. Those that chimed in are just some of the many SMEs we have in this site ... and I'm constantly learning from them and for that I'm very thankful.


Ed

Amen brother, amen. Just when you think you've got it figured out, you're wrong



t

 

[elkaholic]

I still don't understand why the necks on my fired cases were so tight. They were tight enough that they did not need to be re sized. In the past a fired case's neck had expanded enough that you you could slid a bullet into the neck .

The Smith did not have these issues when Fire Forming and testing the Rifle...............

Greg......If you had carbon build up in the neck, this is what I was trying to explain. This could cause the tightness and especially from many firings with too short necks. Even without that extreme, it will often cause accuracy issues when it builds up at the very end of the neck entering the lead. The only other reason that the cases would fit for the smith at first, and not for you now, is that the brass was a different thickness. (this is provided that the smith didn't turn the brass in the first place). This is why I was saying that you need to have at least two basic dimensions. The chamber length for case trimming, and the neck chamber diameter for proper clearance with a bullet loaded in the case. Again this should be a MINIMUM of .003". It doesn't take much dirt (carbon) to reduce this dimension. Different brands of brass can vary from a wall thickness of .012"-.016". If you multiply that by the two sides, that could be as much as .008"! You can easily see how THIS CAN QUICKLY BECOME AN ISSUE. This is why when you get a custom rifle, it is essential to know this and is also why factory chambers are very loose to accomodate different brass. I hope this helps.......Rich

 

[AZShooter]

Greg,

you said: "I still don't understand why the necks on my fired cases were so tight."


I repeat: Find out what the chamber neck dimension is and compare it to your loaded necks.

Regarding the carbon ring. Did your gunsmith look at your barrel with a bore scope? If not wonder how he knew that was the issue. Good comments on this matter Elkaholic.


Here is IMO the most likely explanation in detail. The other reason (besides carbon buildup) your fired case neck wouldn't allow a bullet to fit a fired round:

The diameter of the chamber's neck is only a thousandth or two smaller than your loaded ammo's neck diameter. I would suggest that there was barely enough space to allow for the bullet to be released hence the higher pressures. The loaded ammo had just enough clearance to allow the brass to fit the chamber. Did you ever notice any loads that were hard to chamber?

Approximately .001" or less clearance per side is what would create a fired case's neck that is tight enough to not allow a bullet to pass. The actual measurement can vary because the Winchester brass will vary in thickness. If you chronographed all your load testing you would most likely see some large variations in velocity which would change due to the varying neck wall thicknesses of the win brass.

Get some numbers then we can help you further.

 

[FEENIX]

.....

If there's one thing I learned from this site since joining, there's always people that are far more knowledgeable and more experienced than I am and they are almost always willing and able to lend a hand. Those that chimed in are just some of the many SMEs we have in this site ... and I'm constantly learning from them and for that I'm very thankful.

I too am glad you're finally coming to a resolve. Good luck!

Ed

Amen brother, amen. Just when you think you've got it figured out, you're wrong



t

Ain't that the truth!lightbulb

 

[elkaholic]

This is a common problem and happens more often than it should! It happened with my buddy on a custom 300 WSM. I agree with the guys above. The smith should correct ALL the problems free of charge and feel fortunate that something worse didn't happen. If it were me, in the future I would use a different smith. This is pretty basic safety.......Rich

I'm going to "Quote " myself here because the more info that comes out, the more I see that there is equal fault! I will stick with what I said regarding the smith should ALWAYS inform you on a custom if it is not a no turn neck, or if only certain brass will fit. That said, we also have a personal responsibility and if something isn't working, or making sense, we should find out why before we do something like breaking the extractor. The fact that your smith is going to help you with it and make it right, makes me regret saying you should get a different smith. Honestly, even though they sometimes make mistakes, they are usually MUCH smarter than we are..........rich

 

[Greg Duerr]

I shipped my rifle out today to the Smith................................Im sure he will fill me in on the details when he gets it and looks it over.....................

 

[Marble]

Greg, if you have to turn the necks it's not that big of a deal. You only have to do it one time. The kit is inexpensive.

Hopefully the smith figures out what's up..

 

[Greg Duerr]

The Smith gave me all the information regarding the Rifle when he sent it to me..............its just that I could not find any Winchester Brass or any H4350 I just assumed that that was not that important. I was wrong.
The Smith went out of his way to find out all the information and to make things right even though I was the one who screwed up. He has been very helpful and very accommodating. I would recommend him to anyone.
For me I just kept looking for the cause of the Problem some place that it wasn't. I feel a lot better knowing that it was my issues rather than the brass powder , etc............

Life is a learning process even when you think you've got it all figured out.

 

[Greg Duerr]

Ive never turned my necks but would like to learn so that in the Future I can talk about it like I really know what I'm talking about...................................


Anyone know of a book or video that really goes into depth about all this we have been talking about so that in the Future my eye's wont glass over when someone is trying to explain it to me..............................

 

[elkaholic]

The Smith gave me all the information regarding the Rifle when he sent it to me..............its just that I could not find any Winchester Brass or any H4350 I just assumed that that was not that important. I was wrong.
The Smith went out of his way to find out all the information and to make things right even though I was the one who screwed up. He has been very helpful and very accommodating. I would recommend him to anyone.
For me I just kept looking for the cause of the Problem some place that it wasn't. I feel a lot better knowing that it was my issues rather than the brass powder , etc............

Life is a learning process even when you think you've got it all figured out.

Greg......It takes a good man to admit when they are wrong! I have made PLENTY of mistakes over the years, and still make far too many. (including jumping on your smith) Hornady makes a simple hand held neck turning tool that works very well and I think only costs about $30? You will need to order the mandrel for your caliber to go with it.
Good luck/rich

 

[AZShooter]

Accurateshooter.com is the go to site for detailed stuff like neck turning.

Neck Turning Basics


As for special tools....you don't need a neck wall micrometer. You can get away with a dial indicator set into the K and M neck turning tool. Or if you can't afford anything you can measure the outside diameter of a loaded round, subtract bullet diameter then divide by 2 to get the wall thickness. As others have previously stated a minimum of .003 total bullet release/ neck diameter is required. That is one and one half thousandths per side. IMO it is a bit tight. Better at least .002" per side or even .003" wouldn't hurt. So if you miss you mark with your neck turning you might still be okay. All of these clearances are far better than factory which can be quite a bit larger.

You could continue to use your Full Length sizing die with a sizer ball and the turned brass if cost is an issue. Most loaders that neck turn end using a neck bushing die.

Besides making the brass fit the tight chamber will help ensure that all of the cases will have the same neck tension.