The .338 Rogue

I've only nitrided one barrel so far. This will be my second. But I'm an accomplished researcher on the topic.

What follows is preceded with "in my opinion". If done correctly, everything about nitride treating a barrel is positive with respect to barrel performance and barrel life - except you won't be able to find a gunsmith that will want to re-throat or re-chamber the barrel - because the nitride treatment will surface harden the steel and then dull/damage chamber reamers and throating reamers.

The primary benefits to nitride treatment are improved erosion resistance to the throat/bore, improved corrosion resistance to any chrome moly bore, less barrel fouling so the bore will foul slower and not need cleaned as frequently, and reduced bore to bullet friction which will typically allow a hand loader to realize an increased MV. As far as asthetics, a stainless steel barrel nitride treated looks like its been blued. Nitride treatment is more durable than Cerakote or any other surface coating, because it's chemically bonded into the steel, rather than layered on the surface of the steel like Cerakote or the other surface coatings. Nitride doesn't change the dimension of the treated bore. Nitride treated bores shoot the same as they did prior to nitride treatment.

You want all chambering work to be 100% completed prior to nitriding the barrel, and it's commonly recommended to break the new barrel in with anywhere from 5 to 30 bullets fired down the cleaned bore, using the fire one bullet and clean back down to bare steel method. This helps smooth out any chamber reamer tooling marks or other roughness in the bore prior to surface hardening the bore with nitride treatment. And here's the killer for your existing barrel. You don't want to nitride treat a bore that's had more than ~50 shots fired because the throat could already have fissures in it and nitriding after the throat has minute cracking in it just makes the fissures permanently worse.

Cerakote can be sandblasted off your barrel prior to nitride treatment, but if you've already got more than 50 rounds fired down the bore, let alone 150 or more, then I wouldn't take the risk of nitriding your existing barrel.

Others may think of something I've missed or forgotten. There's quite a bit of information available on the internet now on nitride treatment of barrels, actions, bolts, etc. Folks have been doing this for 5 or more years now and it's unlikely there's going to be many new surprises. If the nitride company doesn't know what they're doing, it is possible to damage a barrel with nitride treatment. So you want to use a company that's experienced in nitride treatment of rifle barrels.
 
I had to correct the load information I posted in former Post #17. I asked Len to delete that Post, and he did.

Here's the corrected load data I'll be using to work up toward maximum loads. These data were collected from some Greg Duley posts. He goes by NZ Longranger on this Forum. He collected both MV and pressure with his Oehler Ballistic Lab. His .338 Lapua Improved cartridge is a little different than mine, and likely has slightly more case capacity than mine, so I'll be approaching his maximum loads with caution. The 65,000psi loads are what he stops at in Remington 700 and similar actions. In stronger custom actions, he's been able to run the .338 Lapua cases up to 70,000psi without any ill affect on the Lapua brass. He didn't provide powder charge weights for some of his loads where he reported velocity. I'll still know to stop adding more powder if I approach his velocities. His barrel is 28" long and so is mine.

Greg Duley loves Alliant RL33, and that's what I'm going to use also.

.338%20Lapua%20Improved%20Load%20Data_zpsub4nysvq.jpg
 
Re: The .338 Rogue _ Barrel Break-in

As I mentioned a couple Posts prior, I'm breaking in my Bartlein barrel prior to shipping it in for nitride treatment.

shortgrass
told me he wasn't seeing much copper fouling through his borescope after his test firings following the gunsmithing work he completed for me. He told me he was firing 300gr Sierra MatchKings.

Shortly after bedding the barreled action to my rifle stock, I cleaned the bore in preparation for additional barrel break-in. I use KG-1 for carbon removal and Bore Tech Eliminator (BTE) for copper removal. Consistent with what shortgrass had communicated, I didn't find a lot of copper fouling on the copper cleaning patches. shortgrass fired 5 SMKs prior to shipping me the barreled action. So my first bore cleaning followed those 5 SMKs fired down the bore. No cleaning occurred during this string of 5 SMKs.

The first bullet I fired down the barrel was a 300gr Berger with a sealed tip. I mean the tip was welded shut. I wasn't even able to drill the tip open. My drill bit ran off center and exited out the side of the bullet rather than following any pilot hole down the tip of the bullet. There was no pilot hole. Solid copper. This is an example of a Berger OTM that would have performed like a full metal jacketed bullet. Since the bullet was boogered up, I used it first for barrel break-in. Cleaning after firing the Berger produced a little bit of copper fouling. Similar to the SMKs, except I only fired one Berger and my initial cleaning following 5 SMKs. Still, not too much copper fouling.

I needed more .338 bullets for additional barrel break-in. I remembered I had a box of defective 225gr Nosler Accubonds. These were early production .338 Nosler Accubonds and corrosion formed behind the plastic tips and popped them off the bullets. Nosler sent me a box of current vintage 250gr Accubonds to replace the defective 225s. So I decide to use the 225gr Accubonds with the defective tips. After firing the first Accubond, I found lots of copper fouling compared to the SMKs or the Berger. I fired 4 additional Accubonds, thoroughly cleaning the bore back to bare steel after each bullet fired. Still lots of copper fouling after firing 5 of the Accubonds down the bore. Hmmmm... Pretty sure the Accubonds are causing the increased copper fouling. What to do...? They're defective and didn't really cost me anything. Kinda hate to waste good bullets for barrel break-in. I haven't even mounted a scope on the rifle yet.

In the past, I've observed significantly reduced copper fouling by the 7th to 20th bullet fired during break-in of a new barrel. It's a bit tedious, and I'm in no great hurry. I shoot one or two bullets per day. This evening I decide to load and shoot a 300gr SMK. Bingo! Very little copper fouling. Below is a photo showing the huge difference in copper fouling between the Accubonds and the SMK.

The patch next to the Accubond was the 3rd copper cleaning patch following the firing of a Nosler Accubond. By 3rd patch, I mean I applied BTE 5 repetitive times to remove copper from the bore, and this is the patch following my 3rd application of BTE. On the other hand, the patch next to the SMK is the patch following my initial application of BTE. It took about 5 applications of BTE to rid the bore of copper fouling from the Nosler Accubonds. It took a single application of BTE to rid the bore of copper fouling from the SMK. Big difference. First time I've experienced this much difference caused by brand of bullet.

Copper%20Removal%20225%20Accb%20versus%20300%20SMK_zpspxgoxwba.jpg
 
This data you provided did the guy have a nitrided barrel? If not looks like your going to gain a little bit of speed on his data.

I don't know if Greg nitrides his barrels or not. I'll send him a PM and ask about that. I'll also ask if he HBN coats his bullets.
 
Any updates?
I sent Greg a PM the day that I said I would and never heard back from him. So I have no 1st hand answer to those questions.

His posts didn't state that his MVs were fired from a nitrided barrel, and I believe he would have if the barrels had been nitrided, because the purpose of his posts were to provide load/pressure/MV/barrel length data from his version of the 338 Lapua Improved. I don't think he would have neglected to differentiate between nitrided barrels and non-treated barrels. I think a nitrided barrel is going to allow a guy to increase MVs to a measurable/notable extent.

Greg's version of 338 Lapua Improved is improved to the maximum. So don't take his data as Gospel for your own Improved cartridge. I'm going to use Greg's data as a "guideline" for working up loads in mine.

My nitrided barrel and brake are in shipment to me now. Will be another month or longer before I begin shooting it.
 
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