swift scirocco II 6.5 cal. 130gr.

[jotrot]

looking for feed back on the 130gr. on performance ? is bc real or inflated ? and how they fly ?

thanks

 

[Edd]

This is what Bryan Litz said about it.........

I measured a G1 BC of .491 for that bullet. G7 BC is .251.

It's got a decent ogive design, but a poor (short and steep) boat tail for base drag reduction. Certainly not a design that could possibly produce a .571 average G1 BC. Even at 3000 fps, the G1 BC is just .515, degrading to .453 at 1500 fps.

None of my analysis included group shooting (precision) testing so I can't comment on that. They may be extremely precise, but the BC claim is not accurate.

 

[WildRose]

looking for feed back on the 130gr. on performance ? is bc real or inflated ? and how they fly ?

thanks

They fly well but I and others have had a lot of problems with overexpansion from them and failing to track true through a target taking unexplained and unpredictable turns.

Apparently their jackets are just too thin and too soft to maintain integrity consistently.

I experienced the same types of failures on both white tailed deer and African game and finally just gave up on them.

If I were going to shoot a bonded bullet I'd stick to the Hornady Interbond or Nosler Accubond and Accubond LR's.

I've never had a Hornady Interbond fail to do just exactly what it's designed to do. Fortunately they are back in production and should be on the shelves again before too long.

 

[Edd]

Apparently their jackets are just too thin and too soft to maintain integrity consistently.

Too thin? Have you ever cut one in half?

 

[woods]

My 6.5 rem mag likes them at ~3175 fps and .060" off the lands

Can't speak to the BC but do think it is inflated AS ARE ALL THE OTHERS. Do think that the BC has to be equal or superior to most all the others, whatever those BC's actually are

The bullet itself is a sterling performer on game. Haven't trapped one yet and all game has been pass thru's and DRT

Besides, really sexy looking

 

[the444shooter]

If anything, I believe scirocco jackets to be too thick, thus encouraging more of a pancaking effect upon impact instead of allowing the jacket to fold backwards and reduce frontal area for more penetration. I saw it firsthand with a 180gr 300 RUM in the neck of a 2yo mule deer. It didn't exit, and looked more like a coin than a mushroom.

 

[WildRose]

Too thin? Have you ever cut one in half?

Didn't have to since the jackets on those recovered made it pretty obvious that either the alloy used isn't strong enough or it's too thin to maintain integrity.

If not for this problem they'd have a great product. It doesn't matter how accurate a bullet is if it doesn't give consistent, predictable terminal performance I won't shoot them at game animals.

I initially wrote it off as a fluke with one batch of 6.5's until I saw the same thing happening with bullets of different weights and calibers with some frequency.

 

[WildRose]

My 6.5 rem mag likes them at ~3175 fps and .060" off the lands

Can't speak to the BC but do think it is inflated AS ARE ALL THE OTHERS. Do think that the BC has to be equal or superior to most all the others, whatever those BC's actually are

The bullet itself is a sterling performer on game. Haven't trapped one yet and all game has been pass thru's and DRT

Besides, really sexy looking

"All of the others" are not inflated. Hornady's numbers are the product of real world testing rather than calculations. One problem with BC's is that they are not static, the BC goes down as velocity decreases so the closest you can hope for is to come up with an average BC across the total length of flight and at the MV used for testing at least with respect to published BC's on the package.

 

[the444shooter]

Wildrose, they've got thicker jackets than all other bonded ballistic tip bullets--which, again, I believe causes any of the failures encountered. Far more pancakes than banana peels, in simple terms. Not good for penetration.

 

[WildRose]

Wildrose, they've got thicker jackets than all other bonded ballistic tip bullets--

According to what source?

which, again, I believe causes any of the failures encountered. Far more pancakes than banana peels, in simple terms. Not good for penetration.

In the bullets I recovered the jacket certainly did not fail to expand with the lead core "pancaking" as you call it.

Those I recovered were mashed flat with no separation of the jacket and lead core and there was clear evidence that the jacket failed to stay together as it looked as if it was torn.

I wish now that I'd kept some of them so I could at least attempt to post pictures.

 

[Idaho Trecker]

I have heard of this explosive behavior from the original scirocco but not the I I
I have shot the 130 scirocco I I in my 270 win and consider it one of the best bonded bullets. I've recovered quite a few and all 88% + weight retention and always lethal on game. As far as bc goes I've also found them to be inflated.
I'd say give them a try and draw your own conclusions.

 

[the444shooter]

According to what source? In the bullets I recovered the jacket certainly did not fail to expand with the lead core "pancaking" as you call it.

Those I recovered were mashed flat with no separation of the jacket and lead core and there was clear evidence that the jacket failed to stay together as it looked as if it was torn.

I wish now that I'd kept some of them so I could at least attempt to post pictures.

Wildrose, you and I are saying the same thing. They expanded FLAT, and didn't fold backwards. I had several friends stop using the Sciroccos because they didn't fully penetrate on animals like they expected. It was speculated that the bullets were definitely expanding, but expanding to the point that they looked more like a coin, or pancake, or whatever flat, round object you want to compare it to, and had such large frontal area (and minimal shank leftover) that they weren't being driven deeper. Then I shot a 2yo Mule Deer buck in the neck as he was facing me, and was able to recover the bullet. It had been mashed flat, (like a pancake) with no jacket separation.

I even spoke with the developer of the bullet about this, and he said they tried to remedy that with the Scirocco II.

If you look at schematics of the Accubond, Interbond, and Scirocco, you'll see that the Scrirocco has a much thicker jacket than the other two.

 

[WildRose]

Wildrose, you and I are saying the same thing. They expanded FLAT, and didn't fold backwards. I had several friends stop using the Sciroccos because they didn't fully penetrate on animals like they expected. It was speculated that the bullets were definitely expanding, but expanding to the point that they looked more like a coin, or pancake, or whatever flat, round object you want to compare it to, and had such large frontal area (and minimal shank leftover) that they weren't being driven deeper. Then I shot a 2yo Mule Deer buck in the neck as he was facing me, and was able to recover the bullet. It had been mashed flat, (like a pancake) with no jacket separation.

I even spoke with the developer of the bullet about this, and he said they tried to remedy that with the Scirocco II.

If you look at schematics of the Accubond, Interbond, and Scirocco, you'll see that the Scrirocco has a much thicker jacket than the other two.

No we're not because the jacket expanded too, not just the lead core.

I have not seen the schematics you are talking about. Have you got a link?

As I said I feel like what's causing it is either a jacket that is too thin or too soft. The Sirocco uses a pure copper jacket whereas Hornady and Nosler use a copper allow called "Gilding Metal".

Nosler goes a step further with their accubond and the jackets vary considerably in thickness with caliber and weight.

I can't argue against the SiroccoII as far as weight retention goes. They must have an amazing bonding process because even the bullets I've seen flatten out completely retain most of their weight with the lead and copper still well bonded together.

Maybe I'm just the victim of numbers. We'll put 7-10 deer a year into the freezer every year and if you shoot enough of any given bullet at enough animals you're going to eventually have some failures. My problem with the Sirocco II is that I had too many of those failures, sometimes at very critical moments to ever trust them again so I moved on or more precisely back to the Hornady Interbond until I ran out after they suspended production of them to launch the ELD series bullets.

Fortunately through blind luck and necessity I came across the Peregrine's while I was in Africa which pretty well, at least to this point ended my search for a better bullet that truly has controlled, limited expansion consistently across the broad range of impact velocities I need.

 

[elkaholic]

They do have a thick jacket but they are one of the only manufactures that use pure copper jackets and pure lead cores (unless they have changed). This makes them softer and more malleable. I actually think that is a good thing, for the most part, but it does cause quicker expansion at velocity. Most of the other manufacturers use a lead alloy to help control expansion......Rich