So many options, need advice

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by RogueWatchmen, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. RogueWatchmen

    RogueWatchmen Member

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    As the title says there are many options out there and I'm honestly new to long range shooting. Right now I live in WV and in moderatly hilly and wooded terrain so I use a 30-06 with a fixed scope of 4x30 if I recall. Not exactly long range shooting, but for deer hunting it does the job quite well given most kills occure ator under 75M or so.

    Now I'm looking to buy something that can hit out to 600M and I am in need of some advice. I'm not trying to build a super expensive rifle since I'm just starting out, and right now 300M is about as far as I can find local range wise, but want that ability to do 600M

    I've narrowed it down to either a Remington 700 or a Savage 10FP. I know I'd like to use a .308 round, and I've been told I should pick up a 6x24x50 scope or something close. In the Remington I know they make multiple variants of that series and I'm leaning towards the SVT with the triangular barrel and muzzle break.

    Comments on the matter? I know the scope is going to be fairly expensive as well, I'd like to keep things economical if possable because like I said this is something new to me. I'm not looking to hit a silver dollar at 600M, but if I could consistantly hit a cantolop or even a small watermelon I'd be satisfied. Theres so much info out there I feel overwelmed as you may imagine, and I don't want to put my faith in some guy behind the counter trying to sell me a rifle alone.
     

  2. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    The model 700 you speak of is a VTR, they have about a 5.5lbs trigger pull that you can get down to 3 if you lucky without slam fires, they are non floated, practically glue to the stock, and the break just makes a lot of noise because a 308 is very mild in my opinion, plus they are a 22" 12 twist. A friend of mine has a vtr that I load ammo for, after trimming the stock and fully bedding it so its free floated and exstensive trigger work it shoots about .5-.7moa with 168 sierra match kings over 46grns of varget. I'm not biased I own remingtons, but I bought a take off barrel from a model 10 fcp and put it on one of my spare 110 actions, which it is a heavier contour 24" 10 twist, but it shoots the same load in the .3moa range, so id go with the savage and an egw 20 moa 1 piece base, some weaver tactical rings and a 6-24x50 Nikon Monarch if I were you. Good luck.
     

  3. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    30-06 will get you that far with enough power to kill Elk, Moose, Deer etc.

    If you want more power than that then move up to a 300wsm, 300 WM, or 300 RUM.

    If you are setting your range limit at 600 there's no need really for anything bigger than a 3.5-10x50 Leupold or maybe 4.5-14 Zeiss Conquest. Unless you plan on shooting Jackrabbit sized game that is at that range.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
  4. lightwind

    lightwind Well-Known Member

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    One of my rigs is a Savage Model 10 .308 with a Vortex Viper 6-24X50. WildRose is right that you don't need that much magnification unless you want to be shooting groups at 600 yards. You can hit larger game with a 3-9 without much trouble. However, if I want to punch paper at more than 300 yards, I prefer the higher magnification just because my eyes are not what they used to be. If you are shooting game at short distances you would be better off with 3 or 4.5 for the low end magnification. If you want to be precise then you probably need to pump up the magnification to 20 power or above at the high end.

    There are scopes that will do both - such as 2.5 - 25 power March scopes or the 5-30 power Swarovski, but they will move you way up in price (<$3k). If you are looking at a tight budget, you are limited at either the low end, the high end, or resolution.

    You just have to decide if the lower end (short range in woods) or the high end (long range small targets) is more important. Then you can make a choice between scopes with ranges from 3-9 or 4.5-14, or 6-24 will be the better choice.
     
  5. RogueWatchmen

    RogueWatchmen Member

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    I'll most likely use my 30-06 for what I've been using it for which is mostly hilly wooded area's w/o much open terrain. I've had pretty good luck with it so far, and it's an older rifle in all honesty. The barrel on it is short enough it looks more like a carbine and is a pump action. I've not seen many of those around either, but its a solid rifle for what I use it for.

    I think I read that the effective range on a .308 is about 800M, some said 1K and while I can get by with a lower powered scope I'd like to get as high an accuracy as possable. I have no illusions of becomeing a sniper or even a exceptional shooter, but if I'm going to fire long range I want to be grouped as well as possable.

    So it looks like people are leaning more towards the savage am I correct? Is the 10FP a solid model for someone starting out with or is there something I should research as well?
     
  6. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Rogue the 30-06 is superior to the .308win at any range and for any application.

    I'd stay with that since it's what you know and love or go up to the .300 win or .300wsm as far as calibers go. The .308 win is a step or three down from all of the above.

    If you want more magnification the above suggestions are good, but I'd also toss in the Zeiss Conquest .

    Zeiss 6.5-20x50 Conquest SS Rapid Z 1000 Target Turr

    Great value there for the money and it takes a lot of the work out of getting out to the 600-1000yds marks.

    As for the rifles, the Remingtons, Savages, and Model 70s are all good choices for your desired application. There are lots of aftermarket options for both the remington and savages.
     
  7. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the assessment the .30-06 being superior to the .308, but I'd qualify it a bit, to realize the full potential of the .30-06 one needs to handload. As economics is a consideration a .308 is generally more economical to shoot.
    I had one of those carbine pump 18.5" barrel 30-06's years ago, had it setup with a peep sight for inclement weather, heavy brush days. Made the mistake of putting a scope on it, and found it outshot my bolt gun considerably. Always thought it rattled a bit too much. It even shot old surplus French military exceptionally well. Corrosive as hell, $1 a box, spend the next week pouring solvent down the barrel telling ourselves how much money we saved.
     
  8. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    My dad has the same problem with his. He's had it since he was 16 I think.

    Buddy of his talked him into getting a new Sako Deluxe 7mm mag for his "Elk Gun". Spent quite a bit of money on it (1970's dollars) and a nice scope.

    Takes off on Elk hunting trip. First morning of hunt finds out his brand new rifle is useless because it's frozen solid, and the scope is hopelessly fogged from the inside.

    Dad puls "Old Grampa" out of it's case; he'd though enough to bring it along as a spare "just in case".

    Kills his Elk at about 300yds with it on the second day.

    That thing is still a nail driver.
     
  9. RogueWatchmen

    RogueWatchmen Member

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    If 30-06 is such a good round howcome I see so much talk about the .308 for everything from hunting, sharpshooting, and law enforcment? Also I don't really plan on loading my own rounds mainly because for me it's more economical to purchase them because of the upfront cost of buying the loading materials and space needed for it.

    How easy are the Savage's to modify down the road? Modifying a firearm seems a little risky as a DIY project all in all. I play paintball and have modified those quite a bit, but I dont have to worry about it blowing up in my face either lol.

    So now I'm really leaning to a savage, I might try and put a better scope on my 30-06 and play with it in the meantime, but I really hate to modify it in any way mainly because it's the first rifle I got from my dad. It's a sentimental kind of thing for me more than anything really. Hope that makes sense to all of ya hehe.
     
  10. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Why is it superior? Just compare ballistics.

    Why do LEO's tend to use .308win instead? People are much easier to kill than large game.

    You can also of course use a short action for .308's reducing overall length of the weapon which is sometimes important. Then of course there's the lower recoil of the .308 due to the lighter bullets and lower powder wt.

    The 06 was the first thousand yard sniper caliber. It has taken more game in this country than all other rounds combined largely due to the many millions of them that were sold as surplus after the wars.

    Bigger case, more powder, higher velocities with heavier bullets.

    Savages are easy to modify because of how their barrels mount.

    Still not something recommended for a novice however unless you are planning to have a gunsmith inspect your work.

    The tolerances are very close and if you miss, you can blow one up in your face.
     
  11. RogueWatchmen

    RogueWatchmen Member

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    That makes a lot of sense really, so maybe look for a 30-06 Savage then? It kind of a toss up really to me, while I'd like to try a diffrent caliber, it's hard to deny the pro's and con's of each. I highly doubt I'll be shooting anything at over a 1000M, but still the ability to do so is very tempting to me lol.
     
  12. RogueWatchmen

    RogueWatchmen Member

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    I want to thank everyone for thier input by the way, I know someone who know's little can be annoying at times but all the information and recomendations has been a great help. I know someone said the muzzle break makes the weapon louder, but doesnt it also help you lower the recoil and make it easier to spot your own shots?
     
  13. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    If you want to kill big game reliably and consistently beyond 600yds I'd say move up to the 300 WM or 300 RUM.

    You can find used 300wm's very reasonably priced. There have been several on the classifieds section here over the last few weeks.

    Think of it this way. Anything you can do with the .308win, you can also do with the 30-06, 300wm, or 300RUM. With each you are gaining greater velocities with bigger bullets which allow you to deliver the same amount of energy at greater distances.

    They all shoot the same diameter bullet.

    Come to think of it I think there's a couple of 06's on the classifieds here now. Give them a look.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with starting out with a used gun.

    I'll say though if you go with a long action to start with though, if you decide to rebarrel later you have a wider array of options available.
     
  14. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    A good muzzle brake can reduce felt recoil up to around 60%.

    They help you shoot better because they reduce the tendancy to flinch with the larger calibers, and they allow you to remain on target to see your impacts and/or to speed follow up shots.