Setting up a scope square?

[Varmint Hunter]

jwp may have a point.

I use a bubble level on my ring base so that the rifle is "cant free" when firing and therefor my verticle crosshair is plumb because thats the way I set it up.

The problem with setting a plumbed crosshair onto a canted rifle is repeatability. Without a mechanical reference of some sort, I would image that you would be holding the rifle slightly different each time. Over loongrange this would induce both verticle and horizontal error in shot placement.

 

[jwp475]

[ QUOTE ]
jwp may have a point.

I use a bubble level on my ring base so that the rifle is "cant free" when firing and therefor my verticle crosshair is plumb because thats the way I set it up.

The problem with setting a plumbed crosshair onto a canted rifle is repeatability. Without a mechanical reference of some sort, I would image that you would be holding the rifle slightly different each time. Over loongrange this would induce both verticle and horizontal error in shot placement.

[/ QUOTE ]

A scope level will asure proper alignment when holding the rifle and elimate slight holding errors........

 

[dbhostler]

Yes, I understand that you are saying the only thing that needs to be level is the reticle, the position of the rifle is irrelevant, right?. When I refer to a "canted" scope, I am refering to a reticle that is not "aligned" with the way you hold your rifle. In my way of shooting, I "level" both the reticle and the rifle with the Earth's gravitational pull, or the Horizon if you prefer. I have also found over the years that the more perpendicular the retical is with the bore and the more parallel over the bore you are, the closer to POA you will hit the farther out you reach especially if you adjust your elevation to that distance. I also use a level on the scope or the base.
Good discussion.
db

 

[ds]

Even with a plumb reticle in perfect conditions (no wind) a rifle dead nuts on at 100 yards will have the same horizontal POI at longer ranges 800 yards plus. Things like spin drift and corolis effect start to play a part.

Not saying that it is not best to start with a plumb reticle but some horizontal movement will happen at longer ranges. D. Tubb has a reticle in S&B 5-25x56PMII scopes is an attempt to deal with spin drift correction.

David.

 

[dbhostler]

Yes that's true, many small things contribute to opening up a group. But the long range shooters occasionally overcome it all and shoot some unbelievable groups. I shoot off the bench a lot but do not claim that I am a benchrest shooter. Most of the benching I do is load development in hunting rifles that have the capability to shoot very well a long way off. Once in a while I'll even take one up the road and shoot 1K, which really isn't that far anymore. Like many shooters I give great attention to even the smallest detail in my rifles and handloads. This includes optics and there mounting. I guess the bottom line for the individual never changes, do what works for you and in places like this share your ideas like we do. Many thanks to Len for starting and maintaining this site and to the many, many shooters that contribute to it.
db

 

[Sam11]

Here is what you can purchase to do the scope level mounting thing and also an anti-cant level. If you purchase the kit from Lyon you get both. You do the plumb bob routine to get your vertical cross hair square. Here is the link to the website. Hope this helps, Sam.

http://lyon-inc.com/

 

[WorkingMan]

Hello, First post for me.

2 subjects.

1. I found this thread because the title aptly describes my problem. But most answers are not quite the answer for me because they assume the scope mount is parallel with the bore in the first place.

The problem I have is that the mount for one of my rifles cannot align parallel with the bore due to a very slight twist in the reciever. As it is the scope would only be good at some specific range I would tune it for and be off on everything else.

What I've come up with is to order some Burris Signature rings to re-align the scope parallel to the bore. Now, actually getting that as perfect as possible is what I need. Right now I'm waiting on the rings to get here but after that I'm going to try a centered laser mounted to an extra scope ring placed on the scope that has a weaver/picatinney rail. Using a laser bore sight also, I should be able to get them fairly parallel. I'm thinking if I can get enough distance to do this I can be reasonably aligned for a 200-300 yard shooter.

Any ideas on better methods I am all ears.

2. As far as making the crosshairs pefectly aligned with the rifle's - I am with JWP in philosophy. If you hold the crosshairs level to gravity (Not all horizons are level) it will work.

Level/square to gravity is where the physics of this is to me. I think the thing that really matters is how you hold the rifle when you pull the trigger - the barrel is round and perfect up-and-down changes with every imperfection you bring with standing and shooting.

Even perfectly squared scopes need to be aimed level to get best results IMO.

That being said:
I have a precise shooter that is perfectly aligned above the boreline and as low and close to the bore as I've ever seen. But I have to thank Savage and Burris for that - all by their design. I believe that scope system will always be better - more precise - than my offset scopes like on my 30-30 and Saiga.

I can see that precision shooting is best accomplished if everything is aligned perfectly up and down over bore centerline. I don't think all guns are made for precision, though.

 

[r7s]

Re: Setting up a scope square?; my preferred tool

Here is my preferred tool for aligning scope reticle to bore:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ing-vertical-reticle-instrument-prod6097.aspx

Here is a good review of the tool: EXD Engineering Vertical Reticle Instrument | Gun & Gear Reviews

 

[Steve Sheasly]

I don`t think it matters that the scope is not alligned to the bore. A barrel will vibrate in all directions anyway, plus which the chances of a mount being exactly in line with the bore is remote.

I think the idea is to align the scope to the bullet path. Adjust the scope to the bullet path with the windage adjustment - horizontal plain.

Leveling a scope allows you to adjust the vertical component (elevation) without affecting the horizontal component. In other words its plumb. I sort of do it with three levels - one on the rifle, one on the mount and one on the elevation turret with the cap removed when setting a scope up and test on a target as others have said.

Well thats my understanding of it, most willing to learn where I am going wrong.

David.

I agree -- I level he scope to what my eye sees as level in relation to the target. I can level to my eye and my hunting partner sees the lines as not plumb. It is shooter dependent.

 

[bill123]

Although I have not tried it, I saw this the other day and it looks pretty solid. I especially like the idea of shining a light through the scope to project the reticle onto a plumb line drawn on a wall.

 

[Bravo 4]

Huh, learn something new everyday.
I use a plubbob as well, just not this way. Gonna give it a shot next time.
I will say this, make sure your reticle isn't canted within the scope. I do a tall target test on each.

 

[milkie62]

I have the wheeler level kit and the 1st gun I tried with it does not really work since no place for the level to sit on the inner part of chamber---M788 Remington.

 

[Aoudad shooter1975]

Always struggled with this...good advice

 

[joep17]

Having owned and mounted literally hundreds of scopes for my self, friends and neighbours and then "correcting" misalignment of scopes mounted by others I suffered with this and tried numerous methods including locking the rifle in a vice using a level.

When the first generation of Wheeler kit came out I bought one and it solved 90% of my problems.

When the upgraded version with the level that clamps onto the barrel I immediately bought that one as I could see it solved the little quirks of the first version.

It is a wonderful system that makes mounting scopes a breeze. Make sure you get the FAt Wrench torque screwdriver too. You will never strip a screw again.