Secret Service using funky FN carbines

[500grains]

Check it out.

Wouldn't they do just as well with a Ruger 10/22 in 22 magnum and a banana clip?

 

[James Jones]

Thats the FN PS-90 , it looks a little funky but they are a pretty well desgined weapon , light weight , very short , 50 round mag.

they are chambered for the 5.7x28 , its a short little round with ballistic close to the 223

 

[EddieHarren]

Those "funky carbines" have been thoroughly tested over the past few years and, with regular PM, have proven to be one hell of a weapon system. The ones the USSS uses have had some factory mods, to USSS specs, and are serving well.

 

[silvertip-co]

Must be another product of FNBrowingWinchesterEtc's new non-union factory in SC...

Is that VP Cheney they are with?

 

[gbp]

Is that VP Cheney they are with?

i thought it was hillery

 

[Guy M]

I've had a little trigger time with one of those FN's... Wow!

Full auto - virtually no muzzle rise even with what seemed to be a very high cyclic rate. Very quick on target and very easy to keep it on target - far easier than any other full-auto weapon I've used.

Besides - it was seriously FUN to shoot! Ballistics? Well, it's a different kind of round for sure...

 

[NONYA]

Ok gun explained,now wth is with that dog?Looks like one of the hell hounds off Willow with mange...gun)

 

[James Jones]

The dog is a Belgin Malinois (pronounced Mal-a-waw) , they are the Ferrari of police K9's. Their awsome dogs , faster , more aggressive much more athletic have a higher drive and in my dealings smarter than the German Shepard.

 

[500grains]

Dog? That is Michelle. David Axelrod put that muzzle on her so that she doesn't cause any more trouble by talking to the press.

Some ballistic snippets I just found:

1.

The SS190 version of the 5.7mm cartridge uses a 31-grain, steel jacketed, steel tipped, aluminum core bullet. It is capable of 2350fps and it can defeat level IIIA body armor at 200 meters.

2.

The third truly remarkable feature of 5.7x28 mm is the behavior of the bullet in gelatin tests. All indications are that the new round will not deform or fragmentmeeting standards set by the Geneva Convention-but at about 2" of penetration it begins to tumble to 180 degrees. This produces a wound cavity that is similar to that of the 5.56 mm NATO ammunition used in M16 rifles. The 5.7x28 mm's battlefield ability to penetrate modern ballistic body armor and ballistic helmet protection is proven. The effectiveness of the residual energy in the projectile after doing so has yet to be proven, although 15 countries are now actively utilizing the new systems.

3.

The 5.7mm round has 379 ft-lbs of energy, compared to 1300 ft-lbs for the 5.56mm NATO. The recoil from the 5.7mm round is much less than even the 9mm.
The SS190 ball is not only flat shooting, but also capable of penetrating car doors and auto-glass with minimum ricochet potential. In contrast, the bullet is designed to stay intact and start a controlled tumble once it penetrates a soft medium, thus reducing any over-penetration worries. The SS190 ball penetrates between 11 and 13.5 inches of gelatin, compared to between 17 and 22 inches of penetration for the M855 dual-core 5.56mm NATO round.

4. Human shot with 5.7x28

In the one shooting we had with the P90, the bullet performed well. In fact, the bullet performed exactly as it was designed. The autopsy provided detailed information about the wound cavity and travel of the bullets. None of the 5.7mm rounds fragmented and as far as we can tell, none exited either. The shooting itself was a violent confrontation with many rounds exchanged between the suspect and the react team. The suspect was hit multiple times with both 5.56mm and 5.7mm rounds.

(note: not a one shot kill.)

5. some ballistics for 5.7 x 28

Bullet Type: JHP Lead Free
Weight of Projectile: 28 gr.
Muzzle Velocity: P90 (2132 fps) - Five-seveN (1890 fps)
Muzzle Energy: P90 (282 ft-lbs) – Five-seveN (222 ft-lbs)

Bullet Type: V-Max Ballistic Tip
Weight of Projectile: 40 gr.
Muzzle Velocity: Five-seveN (1650 fps)
Muzzle Energy: Five-seveN (242 ft-lbs)

6. 22 magnum for comparison

Bullet Type: HP
Weight of Projectile: 40 gr.
Muzzle Velocity: rifle (1875 fps)
Muzzle Energy: rifle (312 ft-lbs)

7. 223 for comparison

Bullet Type: V-Max
Weight of Projectile: 55 gr.
Muzzle Velocity: rifle (3240 fps)
Muzzle Energy: rifle (1282 ft-lbs)

8. My conclusion after some reading:

It seems the advantages of the 5.7 x 28 are (a) ability to penetrate body armor, (b) ability to penetrate car doors, (c) large magazine capacity (50 rds), (d) low recoil for controllable full auto fire, (e) short rifle length for maneuverability, easy to get in/out of vehicles.

On the other hand, the 5.7 would seem a bit weak on stopping power, according to our traditional measures, and is roughly comparable to a 22 magnum on paper.

Thanks for all your comments.

 

[James Jones]

I don't think it was intended to replace the M4 carbine (which i think is the best shoulder fired CQB weapon available when useing a 10.5" barrel) but for so to replace the H&K MP-5 which shoots pistol rounds and will not penitrate most body armor.

I personaly don't care for the PS90 , it doesn't fit me well at all but for most folks its a very shootable weapon wioth nearly zero loss of target during full auto fire , its easy to put 3 round burst into the head on a B27 target. and the 5.7x28 round works very well with a suppressor , you still get the super sonic crack but the suppressor can be made alot more compact than for a 223.

 

[Buffalobob]

On a given day during the tourist season, which is about 9 months long, there will be somewhere between 100 and 300 innocent people on that particular street. Over half of them will be children. Given the situation they are working in, it would seem to be a reasonable choice of gun that would reduce the likelihood of having to live the rest of your life knowing you had killed a child. I cannot think of a single president in my lifetime who was honest and decent enough that I would kill an innocent child to save his life.

Some of the USSS shoot F-class at Quantico. They are some great guys and very good.

 

[500grains]

I cannot think of a single president in my lifetime who was honest and decent enough that I would kill an innocent child to save his life.

I definitely share that sentiment.