I have always shot the 180's out of my 300Wby. That weight of bullet has not let me down and performed as is to be expected. After joining this forum I consider the 180 to be a medium to lighter bullet now. After saying this though it was not until this summer that I learned my rifle was shooting the 180;s at 3250fps. Which to me is pretty fast for that weight of bullet.
School me on copper bullets
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krinkansas
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I've used Barnes for years. Never had trouble with them. I've shot deer, elk, antelope, cape buffalo, eland...…. Very accurate if you load them hot and 30-50 thousandths off the lands. My guns all shoot 1/2 MOA or better.
Since ordering and shipping Ammo to Ca to a FFL ( if they will receive it ) is tricky and costly.....Barns TTSX has always shot well in my work ups LRX, GMX and E-tip work well also. The best way for you to go about this is to go to your local supplier and grab a box of factory Ammo from several manufacturers. Stay on the heavy for caliber side of copper Bullets for each since you are hunting elk . Shoot groups with each Manufacturer and I'm willing to bet you will have one that your gun really likes . I know it's not cheap to buy 4-6 boxes of primium copper Ammo but it's cheaper and way faster then buying all the reloading components not to mention the learning curve ....
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ajkellerusmc
Well-Known Member
The Barnes TSX was the more accurate barnes for me over the newer TTSX or LRX in the 30 caliber rifles I hunt with. Keep in mind You do not need sub .5moa groups to shoot game even at 500yds
I have 1moa with the Hornady GMX from my 6.5 and the new Hornady "BOAR" load in the 120gr GMX is cheaper than the standard 120GMX and shoots just as good and looks exactly the same if you hold them in your hand. I had real bad results with the Nosler E-Tip. I wouldnt use a 6.5 for ELK except for Cows at under 300 yds.
In the muzzeloader I use the Barnes 290gr TMZ for Elk and it does the job and punches through to or out the other side. I switched to the barnes after shooting a bull in the shoulder twice with the lead powerbelt 300gr and both bullets disentigrated inside his vitals. The first shot never reaching the far side Lung and that was why I had to reload and shoot him again. Since switching to the Barnes I have penetrated on through even Bull Elk.
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The pictures are of a 290 TMZ recovered from the opposite Hide of a bull Elk shot at 207 Yds.
I have 1moa with the Hornady GMX from my 6.5 and the new Hornady "BOAR" load in the 120gr GMX is cheaper than the standard 120GMX and shoots just as good and looks exactly the same if you hold them in your hand. I had real bad results with the Nosler E-Tip. I wouldnt use a 6.5 for ELK except for Cows at under 300 yds.
In the muzzeloader I use the Barnes 290gr TMZ for Elk and it does the job and punches through to or out the other side. I switched to the barnes after shooting a bull in the shoulder twice with the lead powerbelt 300gr and both bullets disentigrated inside his vitals. The first shot never reaching the far side Lung and that was why I had to reload and shoot him again. Since switching to the Barnes I have penetrated on through even Bull Elk.
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The pictures are of a 290 TMZ recovered from the opposite Hide of a bull Elk shot at 207 Yds.
Check out Barnes X Bullets TTSX
Barnes 200 gr Long Range X Bullets and don't look back. I shoot Barnes Bullets in my 223s, 270 WSM, 7mm-08, 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag and have loaded them friends and family in 30-06, 308 Win. 257 Roberts and 220 Swift. I've yet to see a Rifle yet that I couldn't make shoot near 1/2 MOA or smaller. Killed my Ram at 442 yards, my Antelope at 300 and Coues Bucks from 75-595 yards with 129 gr LR X Bullets in my 270 WSM. For extreme long range, there are better Bullets I suppose, but for about 800 yards in, the Barnes Bullet will do everything you could ask and one in the 180-200 gr class will absolutely Hammer an Elk.
I have very limited expereince with solid copper bullets. Only one and only season. That is a 50 Cal. made by Barnes for use in muzzle loaders. I used it last season in my Savage 10-ML. It performed superbly at the range with a load I matched up with it and the rifle. It also was flawless in the field. I shot at and killed cleanly 7 white tail deer with this bullet. Closest shot was about 20-30 yards. Longest shot was about 185 yards. I have used lead core bullets, both factory loads and my hand loads, in my center fire rifles for decades. I have use about every brand of bullet out there at one time or another. My two favorites are the Nosler Partition and Sierra Game King. I cannot imagine any advantage a that solid copper would have over either of these for what I normally hunt ... white tail deer, wild hogs and occasionally mule deer.
I voluntarily switched over to all copper this last season. As far as factory loads go the vor-tx loads for both my 30 and 25-06 shot great after putting some break in rounds through a completely clean barrel. Terminal performance was great on two antelope and a big bodied mule deer buck. On the first antelope which was my first lead free kill I would have said the killing was more delayed than with lead. Bedded down with a heart shot he still went a good 60 yards. However, a couple days later I saw a buck bang flop with my 25-06 and two other well hit pronghorn run for a bit hit with accubonds and eldx bullets from larger caliber guns at closer range. Point being sample size is important.
The big mule deer buck was a 500 yard shot with the deer expiring almost immediately. The .308 bullet was impacting at the minimum expansion velocity. Complete pass through.
The big thing with the coppers is when comparing ballistics the limiting factor to your effective range will almost always be impact velocity and not energy. They also can be harder to reload for. But for me I want to only harm the wildlife I'm actually shooting at and not having lead in my meat is an added bonus. I have switched to hammer bullets for the 25-06 and can't say enough about the ease of shooting sub moa and meeting velocity goals. The product support has been second to none.
The big mule deer buck was a 500 yard shot with the deer expiring almost immediately. The .308 bullet was impacting at the minimum expansion velocity. Complete pass through.
The big thing with the coppers is when comparing ballistics the limiting factor to your effective range will almost always be impact velocity and not energy. They also can be harder to reload for. But for me I want to only harm the wildlife I'm actually shooting at and not having lead in my meat is an added bonus. I have switched to hammer bullets for the 25-06 and can't say enough about the ease of shooting sub moa and meeting velocity goals. The product support has been second to none.
DartonJager
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I took the time to read the entire article and from my very earliest days of hunting I was 100% certain that if your bullet performs even at the bearest of minimally well two holes in any animal beats only one every single time.
Amazing educational and equally enlightening
For years this belief of mine was based on nothing more than gut instinct until I saw pictures of the wound cavities made in modeling clay in a reloading book from the late 70's or very early 80's. The author shot rifle and hand gun bullets into quite soft modeling clay then cut the clay in half exposing what essentially an example of the temporary and perminate wound cavities.
Upon seeing this aftermath confirmed for me 100% you are better off having a bullet exit an animal then remain inside.
I also never bought into the theories of "knock down" or "stopping power" in rifles but especially HG's.
DartonJager
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Ajkellerusmc;
I am a HUGE fan of Barnes all copper ML bullets as I own a Savage 10ML-II and push the 290 grain TMZ 's and my newer favorite the flat based T-EZ's at a MV of 2450.
I have found I can not push a Barnes ML bullet fast enough to get it to fail and that includes MV's of over 2800fps for the 245 SF's and the 250grn T-EZ's.
Three years ago shot a HUGE doe at 45 LRF confirmed yards with a 250 grn T-EZ quartering towards me at about 2800+ fps blew through the shoulder went through both lungs and shattered the last rib on opposite side on the way out
Have killed over a dozen deer with Barnes ML bullets and about 14-15 deer using 12ga 2.75" Federal Barnes Tipped Expanders which are essentially the same bullet but weighs 300 grains. Of all those deer have only ever recoverd one bullet from the the heaviest big bodied buck Ive ever killed
Shot was with buck quartering away at about 120 yards was standing at the time. Best I could tell slug entered in the last third of the right lung passed through both lungs found it in opposite shoulder it had broken.
RockyMtnMT
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My hat is off to you. You really have to be a bullet geek to read that whole thing. It really is good info and done in a way that it can be understood by less than a physics PhD.
jacktheaxe
Member
jacktheaxe
Member
I have used the 168 Barnes for years in my 300wsm it will take elk out to 587yds with one shot and 538yds
Forgot it kills pigs but the only draw back is they pass through and ricochet real bad
And as my friend Kevin noticed the pigs don't drop as fast as they seem to with the lead he used in the past
Have not lost a animal but you have to shoot them in the vidals too
At 538yds it nocked it down you could see the antler imprint in the snow when 50yds fell over the edge
