Question for the metallurgists out there......

[goodgrouper]

I have been doing some research on Stellite lately and have been very impressed with what I have found out. It is super tough stuff. Cutters and tool heads are often made from it. It has a high cantilever strength and can be heated and cooled very quickly many times with no loss in Rockwell hardness. It also shows super resistance to erosion and corrosion. It has seen some use in high cyclic rate machine guns but only as a liner. So it got me thinking about making the whole barrel out of it. I know it would be very hard to machine rifling into and would cost big $ but would it be concievable to make a top end barrel from it?

Does anyone have any experience with machining or dealing with Stellite? Can it be made into a barrel? What is the cost of material in ratio to 4140 or 410?


Considering the cost of High grade SS steel and then the gunsmithing fees to set back and chamber the barrel, a Stellite barrel for the overbore super mags might be worth the down time and cost. Especially after all the load development money we have invested in a certain rifle.

 

[royinidaho]

GG,

Kinda off the wall but, the 1966 Chevelle SS 396, if I remember correctly had stellite valve guides. They had a heck of a problem with that engine. But it was a screamer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, someone must have done some machine work on it. Guess I'm dating my self, or is that politically incorrect too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, my research has reduced the choices for a 338 to the Thunder and Tommahawk. Will wait to hear results when you get shootin'. The tommy that I researched has a 32" Lilja bbl. With 100gr Retumbo is getting 3120 MV and teenie weenie groups w/250 SMKs..

 

[4ked Horn]

Sorry, never heard of it. Is it an alloyed iron product or is it a different duck like aluminum or titanium would be?

 

[Black Diamond 408]

Stellite is usually investment casted, its a high colbalt alloy. Dont know how you could chamber it.
http://www.stellite.com/

 

[zingdingo]

Goodgrouper,

Email sent,

Carl

 

[Centre Punch]

GG,
I have used Stellite both as a cuttiing tool and i have machined the stuff, by machining i usually mean grinding and EDM.
With brazed tipped diamond tooling, i have also performed light machining operstions turning small 45 degree countersinks, in Stellite Die inserts used in the manufacture of wood screws
It is extremely hard and very brittle, in my experience its best quality is its compressive strength.

I understand that some 1911 barrel manufacturers EDM there pistol barrel rifling, so this technology already exists.

Apart from cost( a 1/4"x 1/4"x 3" toolbit costs me the equivalent of $15)i think you would encounter to many problems to make the manufacture of this barrel viable, due mainly to the materials brittleness.

During my apprenticeship we conducted shear tests on various cutting tool materials and the stellite came out worst apart from carbide.
Clamp the above tool bit in a vice and tap it with a hammer and it will snap with little force, do this to an equivalently sized piece of hardened and tempered high carbon steel and it will flex and spring back into shape.

If you could cut them, your barrel threads would most likely collapse on tightening into your action and i think there could be a very real risk of a chamber explosion with your first hot load!

Ian.

"I meant to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"

 

[ricka0]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> if I remember correctly had stellite valve guides. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
Stellite overlay-ed value and <font color="red"> seats (not guides) </font> have been used for exhaust values for over 30 years (that I know of - probably longer). They have much longer life than conventional valves with turbochargers, superchargers, juice (NO) - anywhere you have elevated temperature. But the valve is only inlay-ed with Stellite.
Stellite valve

 

[goodgrouper]

Thanks guys for your responses.

I am looking into a Stellite bore coating process now with the barrel being made from ordinary stainless. There is a company who used to do this for the military on contract but I'm not sure if they are still around.

 

[zupatun]

Wikipedia info on Stellite:

"Typical applications include saw teeth, hardfacing (wear-resistant welding), poppet valves and seats in internal combustion engines and also in acid resistant applications. The first third of M-60 machine gun barrels (starting from the chamber) are lined with stellite. Modern jet engine turbine blades are usually made of stellite alloys, due to their very high melting points and tremendous strength at very high temperatures. In the early 1980s, experiments were done in the United Kingdom to make artificial hip joints and other bone replacements out of precision-cast stellite alloys.

Stellite has also been used in the manufacture of turning tools for lathes. With the introduction and improvements in tipped tools it is not used as often any more, but it was found to have superior cutting properties compared to the early carbon steel tools and even some HSS tools, especially against difficult materials as stainless steel. Care was needed in grinding the blanks and these were marked at one end to show the correct orientation, without which the cutting edge could chip prematurely."

Interesting...

 

[royinidaho]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> if I remember correctly had stellite valve guides. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
Stellite overlay-ed value and <font color="red"> seats (not guides) </font> have been used for exhaust values for over 30 years (that I know of - probably longer). But the valve is only inlay-ed with Stellite.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the corrections. I figured it was something like that but couldn't remember. I drove the heck out of my room mate's SS 396. Pretty much fun..

Wonder how a fella could electoplate that stuff.

Also weren't the old REM 721s chrome lined. Have heard that a couple of times but never knew for sure.

 

[ILIKA308]

STELLITE COMES IN MANY GRADES AND HARDNESSESS. THE MATERIAL IS MACHINEABLE MAINLY BY A GRINDING OPERATION. I HAVE MACHINED IT ONLY AS A COATING AND TUNGSTEN CARBIDE TOOLING WOULD NOT TOUCH IT. IT HAS ITS PLACE BUT A PRECISION RIFLE BARELL IS NOT ONE OF THEM. IT IS USED WHERE A LOT OF HEAT AND STRESS AND CORROSION ABRASION AND EROSION OR CHEMICAL ATTACK IS OBVIOUS TO THE METAL. STELLITE IS PRIMARILY AN OVERLAY OR COATING TO MAKE SURFACES BASICALLY INDESTRUCTABLE UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, THE TOUGHER THE SITUATIONS GET FOR STELLITE THE BETTER IT LIKES IT.

 

[Boss Hoss]

I have several knives made by the late Martin Pullen. The stuff is impervious to corrosion and has uses in high pressure steam valves on ships as well as other applications. The problem with Stellite is that is rather soft and does not heat treat and is not a steel. The knives that I have will literally cut up most other knives as this stuff is basically a carrier metal containing microscopic carbides giving it very very very high abrasion resistance. I watched Martin using the belt sander to contour one of the blades and watched 1 blade completely wear out a sanding belt conversely the 154 CM (American ATS 34) blades of the same size and thickness to be removed would do 4 to 5 knives per belt! TOUGH stuff but Don't bend it because it will bend pretty easy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif