question for the experts, or anyone else who has an answer

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by jax338, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. jax338

    jax338 Active Member

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    I have .270 win brass, once fired with light load(56.5) of h4831 and no problems. However, the second time after firing it I noticed what seemed to be a crinkle(not a crack, but kind of looks like a crack) on the top side of the expander ring but only on one side of the cases. The load was 59.5gr of Re22 with a federal 215 and a 130 sierra. There were no other signs of pressure, cratered primers, extactor marks, etc. I am also using forster bench rest neck sizer dies. The gun is a model 70 featherweight. Any idea what would be causing this?
    Thanks,
    A.J.
     
  2. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    If only i could figure out what part of the case the "expander ring" is i might be able to help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    JB
     

  3. jax338

    jax338 Active Member

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    It is the ring(head)above the rim of the case, sorry for the terminology jb, I wasn't sure what it was exactly called.
     
  4. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Jax, this is one of those "cases" ha ha, where a picture would be worth a thousand words.if we could see this crinkle, at the expander ring, we might be able to help.
     
  5. Mike in Texas

    Mike in Texas Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a chamber not cut concentric with the boreaxis,
    or receiver threads not cut concentric withthe receiver axis.
    Something isn't properly aligned.
     
  6. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are talking about the area just ahead of the extractor groove.

    The "crinkle" you're referring to sounds like the case is trying to seperate there.

    Take a paper clip and unfold it into a wire about three inches long. Then put a 1/8" 90 degree bend at the end. Use this "feeler" to rub along inside the case wall in the area where you see the "crinkle." If you feel a notch there, the case is trying to seperate.

    What kind of brass is this? You say it's now twice fired. It's possible that you are sizing incorrectly, pushing the shoulder back too far. That will cause cases to seperate sometimes in the area you mention.

    In any event, don't use this brass anymore. Toss it out.

    What kind of rifle are you using? Is it by chance an NEF (H&R) break action?

    And if it's Federal brass, it should have been thrown out on the FIRST firing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Dan

    Edit: Here's a drawing of a case with a hash mark in an area typical of where cases sometimes separate. Your cases may be separating a little farther back, closer to the extraction groove...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. jax338

    jax338 Active Member

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    green 788,
    The gun is a winchester model 70 featherweight, the brass is winchester, and I'm using forster neck sizer dies, so I don't know if I could have pushed the shoulder back and caused head space problems? Like I said in the first post, it did not appear with the light load I used to fire form, but it became visible on the second firing with re22. But that load showed no other signs of pressure. The crinkle IS closer to the extraction groove, any ideas on what I could do to fix it?
     
  8. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    Did you use the paper clip wire to feel the inside wall of the case?

    Like someone else said above, it's hard to work without a picture here--but it definitely sounds like a case trying to separate.

    Do you have any once fired FACTORY LOADED shell casings laying around? If so, measure the length of one and let us know how long it is... I don't think this rifle would have a headspacing problem, but anything is possible I guess...

    Dan
     
  9. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    Also, this could simply be a matter of some crappy brass. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  10. youarenotcrazy

    youarenotcrazy Well-Known Member

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    I get that crease from factory ammo from time to time and my chamber checks out just fine so I always just assumed it was fairly normal. I reload the creased brass 4-5 times and keep close checks on each piece for separation.
     
  11. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I have not loaded 270 in a long time. But, I do use R22 in a 25'06AI. Your load, I'm not looking it up, but it just sounds hot, to me? What you are describing, again (to me) sounds like case head separation. If you do, you have an unsafe condition and you had better get to the bottom of it before you leave the case body stuck in the chamber while removing the rim. A competent gunsmith can fix this for you.

    But somebody else mentioned a possibility, misalignment, probably caused by a severe overload, bulging the chamber. Every round subsequent, will show a bulge conforming to the damaged chamber. There is only one solution, if you have enough barrel; cut a new chamber. Otherwise, it will make a good jack handle.

    Good hunting. LB
     
  12. jax338

    jax338 Active Member

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    green 788,

    I checked the lengths of the two different cases and they were the same. I also did the paper clip test and could not feel any separation. I will try to ge a picture and post it as soon as possible.
     
  13. jax338

    jax338 Active Member

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    LB,
    This is what I thought at first too, but this load is a few grains under max, and shows no other pressure signs at all. I've had the gun since it was new and never fired an overload in it In fact, I don't think I've ever fired a max load in it. so I don't know how it could be misaligned or have bulged chamber, unless it came that way from the factory.
     
  14. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    Before we over-think this into a third page... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Can you get another batch of brass and try those loads again?

    Could just be screwy brass. I had some 22-250 Winchester brass that wanted to split on the shoulder. Examined my loading practices and rifle ad nauseum before trying some other brass, whereupon the problem went away.

    Dan