Out of elevation on a Remi 700 XCR - can anyone help?

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Jon2, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. Jon2

    Jon2 Well-Known Member

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    Dear all

    Can anyone tell me how this can be-

    I have a S&B 3-12x50 Precision Hunter mounted on my Remi 700 XCR in 7mm Mag and regardless of whether it is in Talleys or Leupold DDT's I am maxed out on elevation when zero'd at 100 yards.

    Is this an issue with the action? I know the scope is fine as when I mount it on any of my Sako's it is more or less centered (elevation wise).

    Is there a remedy to this other than mounting an inclined base and or Signature rings?

    Has anyone else experienced this with their Remi?

    Thanks

    JB
     
  2. muleyman

    muleyman Well-Known Member

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    Its probably not the issue, but once when I swapped a scope around on several rifles then ring setups, I had forgotten to re-zero the adjustments back to center in between several of them so each time I re-zeroed the rifle, I lost some adjustments. You may try it, dunno know if it will help though.......
     

  3. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    You can shim the base about 20 MOA but more than that and you get into some minor issues. Sounds like you need both a base and signature rings to actually get the right adjustment for long range hunting.
     
  4. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    As muleyman notes, I'd be sure it's re-centered/zeroed and then see if you're closer to where you need to be.

    If you need to know how, read here:
    How important to accuracy is optically centering scope? - Benchrest Central Forums

    Most important (I think) is post #8. I do procedure 2 and if I really want to be precise then procedure 3. For procedure 2 I use a small 3x4 inch "makeup" mirror that was a giveaway from a car dealer. :D

    I find it somewhat hard to believe that if it is optically centered and then you sight it in that your particular scope would run out of adjustment.... In theory there should be plenty there.

    Let us know.
     
  5. Jon2

    Jon2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks fellas

    I am defo out of adjustment for up.

    I think the only option would be to get a 20 MOA base and or sig rings.

    I only want/need to get out to say 600 yards so with a 20 MOA base I would have plenty left before getting close to maxing out.

    Thanks also for the link Dr.

    Cheers

    JB
     
  6. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    Even if you're sure it's optically centered before you start?

    We don't doubt you're out of adjustment range now. It's just hard to believe that if the scope started out optically centered (key point) that it would run out of adjustment when trying to get it on paper at 100 yards.

    If it were me (and it's not, but... ) I would do this -

    - watch this movie Scopes - rings by Burris Optics
    - remove scope, and optically center as per the link in my post above
    - install Burris Signature rings. Also, when you order them get the pack of 3 inserts (5/10/20) so you can get it lined up ahead of time. Cheapest place is Optics Planet Burris Riflescope Mounts - Burris Rings & Burris Bases ON SALE Burris Ring, Burris Mount, Burris Mount
    - Use a laser boresighter aimed at a wall or object 100 yards away. Use ballistics calculator to figure out where your bullet "would" hit compare to where the laser is projecting at 100 yards; don't forget to use the correct zero, which may be 100 or may be 200 depending on your preference. Now use the inserts to move your scope up or down so that your crosshairs are at or below that point of (theoretical) impact
    - Use windage screws to adjust your left/right

    I've done this several times and can usually get a rifle very close to right where I want it before I ever shoot once. This keeps it at its optical center as well.

    It doesn't take me much longer to do it than to type this. :D
     
  7. Jon2

    Jon2 Well-Known Member

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    Dr. thank you for your input here and sorry as I mis understood your previous post.

    Yes I agree, if I could get my scope optically centered to begin with there would be no issue at all.

    The Burris sigs are a great design and I know they would allow me to do this - I was trying to use ideally the Talleys as I like the way they look but I think, short of having the reciever looked at, I will go down the route of an inclined base which I already have or maybe get some sig zee's on a weaver.

    Thanks again
     
  8. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    Then you need to do it! :) I've even provided the instructions! :D

    My point is that it's probably way off center now because it was adjusted to fit your previous rifle and now you're trying to adjust it again to fit your current rifle. By doing so you've made it so far out of whack that it won't work. When you mount a scope in traditional rings you "always" have to bring the crosshairs down to meet the point of impact. You've now increased the problem by trying to do it on 2 rifles. If it were brought "back to square one" by centering it I think you could use the Talleys and be fine. This is assuming, of course, that the Talleys aren't a part of the problem.

    I still believe that you could return the scope to its optical center (via the info in the link a few posts ago, which takes less than 2 minutes of your time), mount it back on your current rifle and have zero issues. Not that I haven't been wrong before, but... :D

    Here's an easy test:
    Remove it, and follow the mirror recentering trick from the other forum:
    Place a mirror on the objective housing (I usually place a mirror on my workbench and have a light shining at the mirror from the side, then have the scope objective rest on the mirror). Look through the eyepiece and you will see the actual reticle and its reflection. Adjust both turrets until the actual cross hair covers its reflection.

    I think you'll find that the reflection is waaaay off where you see the reticle. If it is, then you will likely be able to reinstall it and go. If it's not, then try the adjusted base or the Burris rings. You are supposed to re-center it anyway before installing it on new bases, so why not try it and see how far out of whack it is?

    Let us know how it's going!
     
  9. RJ338

    RJ338 Well-Known Member

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    The real issue is weather the reciever is near the same specs as the rings. Remington machines the rear reciever surface and then in the finishing process, polished(deburrs) both surfaces. Neither of them will necessarily be aligned the the bore. Problem is when you use a two pc. base it will align to thase two surfaces that are ??? pointing wherever... This is why you end up lapping rings, and sometimes redrilling and tapping to larger mounting screws to bring the windage in. I recamend you look at the DNZ ring mount. It is a one pc. base and lower ring unit(like the Talley, but one pc.)Then to get the elevation right, shim the very rear of the base and "bed the base with JB Weld. "Note", wax the reciever and screws well! and degrease the bottom of the base and DON"T tighten the screws, only gently snug the front and rear screws, and just run the middle two in until they touch.
    This is the hard way to do what using the Burris Signature rings do.
     
  10. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    A scope is going to zero on that particular rifle at the same point no matter where the reticle is before zeroing. Starting with an optical centered reticle will make no difference. The errector tube doesn't change locations because of where the reticl is located before zeroing
     
  11. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    Oops. You're right on that one.

    However, I maintain that keeping it close to optical center when it's at zero (or, more correctly, the zero you want it to be at) does make a difference. And, if he's going to start over I'd want to do it right.
     
  12. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    The opening post states that he has a S&B with the Precision Hunter Knobs. This means that the scope is designed to be dialed for added elevation in the field. SO the scope should be zeroed in the lower part of the elevation range in-order to allow come ups in the field for longer range shooting
     
  13. Jon2

    Jon2 Well-Known Member

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    Dr I am getting confused here now. I thought you were saying make sure I optically center my scope by using Sig rings.

    On the S&B scopes they have a small seperate dial on the windage and elevation turret which tells you where you are within the range of elevation or windage. Just to confirm where I am, it is as JWP states i.e. it would make no diffrerence whatsoever in this situation as even if I optically center I then have to zero at 100 which would take me back to max.

    RJ, I haven't heard of the DNZ mounts and I will take a look.

    Thanks again all.
     
  14. Jon2

    Jon2 Well-Known Member

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    RJ

    I think the DNZ's could be the answer.

    They do a 30mm LA Rem 700 one piece with 20 MOA incline which they state is high (for 50 to 56mm obj). This maybe too high for me but they do have a custom shop where they state they can machine you a custom mount.

    I will give them a call this week.

    Thanks for bringing this to my attention.