Nosler Accubond Long Range problem

[Fiftydriver]

We are all pretty familiar with the original AB and it's pluses and minuses. It appears we have learned what we need to know about the LRAB. In my opinion, Nosler tried a little to hard to take over the long range world and overshot! What they need to come up with is something about half way in between the two. I know how difficult it is to get a bullet to take high velocity stress and still be fragile enough to expand at low velocity. These LRAB's expand EASIER than mine do. I believe the difference is, as Kirby pointed out, the large hollow point behind the tip, coupled with a thin nose. Mine have a thin nose, and a tip, and I even serrate the nose, but the lead is flush with the tip. This allows expansion at low velocity but is much more controlled (not explosive). Besides that, the LRAB's are bonded! What would they do if they weren't!........Rich

I think the cure could be pretty simple. I am not a bullet maker and no one should really be listening to me, I build rifles not bullets but here are my throughts anyway.

- Thicken the jacket slightly for more integrity. Retain the aggressive ogive design.

- Fill the hollow cavity under the tip so there is lead supporting the tip.

- Increase the size of the tip slightly and possibly add a bit more wedge design to the base of the tip to promote expansion at longer range. That combined with the aggressive ogive should retain fine expansion at long range.

Would these three things solve the problems. Maybe, maybe not but it would be a good start in my opinion and again, that is all it is.

 

[longarm]

I sent an email to Sierra recently asking if they could bring out a .270 150 grain MatchKing with a bc of around .625. They replied that they will look into it to see if it can be done. I'll just continue using the 150 Bergers which perform very well at 3300 fps until the 1 in 10 barrel is shot out. By then the 170s should be on the market and then I'll get a tighter twist barrel.

 

[mtmuley]

Anybody gonna flog the .30 cal 210 grain ALR like this? They are working well in my RUM at close to 3100 fps. I'd love to find out what they would do anywhere past that. mtmuley

 

[elkaholic]

I think the cure could be pretty simple. I am not a bullet maker and no one should really be listening to me, I build rifles not bullets but here are my throughts anyway.

- Thicken the jacket slightly for more integrity. Retain the aggressive ogive design.

- Fill the hollow cavity under the tip so there is lead supporting the tip.

- Increase the size of the tip slightly and possibly add a bit more wedge design to the base of the tip to promote expansion at longer range. That combined with the aggressive ogive should retain fine expansion at long range.

Would these three things solve the problems. Maybe, maybe not but it would be a good start in my opinion and again, that is all it is.

I wish I had one of the bullets to disect. I only had 5 to shoot and didn't want to sacrifice any. I seriously doubt that the jacket mouths are any thinner than mine as I use a .012"and most others are at least .014". I think your ideas are valid; at least in some combination. I would probably do away with the hollow point, leave the nose thin, and/or serrate slightly, put a little less taper in the jacket, and a larger tip if expansion wasn't sufficient at that point. The reason I suggest more taper is these things expand "beyond" anything that is necessary at long range and sacrifice a lot of weight at higher velocities. Bear in mind that all of these changes would affect balance and obturation to some degree, so they would obviously need to do some homework (testing) to maintain accuracy, but I think it is doable.......Rich

 

[Fiftydriver]

I wish I had one of the bullets to disect. I only had 5 to shoot and didn't want to sacrifice any. I seriously doubt that the jacket mouths are any thinner than mine as I use a .012"and most others are at least .014". I think your ideas are valid; at least in some combination. I would probably do away with the hollow point, leave the nose thin, and/or serrate slightly, put a little less taper in the jacket, and a larger tip if expansion wasn't sufficient at that point. The reason I suggest more taper is these things expand "beyond" anything that is necessary at long range and sacrifice a lot of weight at higher velocities. Bear in mind that all of these changes would affect balance and obturation to some degree, so they would obviously need to do some homework (testing) to maintain accuracy, but I think it is doable.......Rich

In all honesty, I really did not see ALOT of problem with the expansion of the standard Accubond at long range but I also realize that I am pushing them pretty fast in most of my wildcats. Still, I was a bit surprised when I saw the dramatic change that Nosler made with the base design of the bullet, mainly internally. I do not believe the standard Accubond has a serrated ogive at all. Had they done that, I think that would have easily gotten better expansion at lower velocity ranges as a simple fix.

Think they just tried to do TO MUCH to fast with this design and it came back and bit them.

By the way, PM me some information on what bullets your making, would be interested to see what you are making.

 

[elkaholic]

In all honesty, I really did not see ALOT of problem with the expansion of the standard Accubond at long range but I also realize that I am pushing them pretty fast in most of my wildcats. Still, I was a bit surprised when I saw the dramatic change that Nosler made with the base design of the bullet, mainly internally. I do not believe the standard Accubond has a serrated ogive at all. Had they done that, I think that would have easily gotten better expansion at lower velocity ranges as a simple fix.

Think they just tried to do TO MUCH to fast with this design and it came back and bit them.

By the way, PM me some information on what bullets your making, would be interested to see what you are making.

I previously shot the std. AB and they are a useful bullet. I started making my own about 7 years ago because the AB's would not perform at the distance I was using them. I was shooting a 30" barreled 300 RUM with the 200 AB (muzle velocity 3350'). I shot an elk at 1025 yards and all it did was blow the tip off the bullet and flatten the lead just a little. The bullet was still .308" diameter, but just a little shorter with most of the ogive intact. I have killed several with my own since then and have improved the design a little each year. All of them work far better than the AB "at this range"! When I shoot one up close, I just make sure they are shot in the ribcage. They do a bang/flop at close range but suffer some serious entry damage! I do make a double jacket version that performs much better up close with little difference in long range performance, although you do lose just a little b.c. and a little accuracy. They shoot to the same poi out to probably 600-700 yards, or at least close enough for that range. A good method is to use those closer up but sight in for long range with the others.......Rich

 

[Pdvdh]

A good method is to use those closer up but sight in for long range with the others.......Rich

I subscribed to two different bullets for two different purposes long ago. Never been disappointed with that chosen path to optimizing bullet performance on game.

 

[royinidaho]

I wish I had one of the bullets to disect. I only had 5 to shoot and didn't want to sacrifice any. I seriously doubt that the jacket mouths are any thinner than mine as I use a .012"and most others are at least .014". I think your ideas are valid; at least in some combination. I would probably do away with the hollow point, leave the nose thin, and/or serrate slightly, put a little less taper in the jacket, and a larger tip if expansion wasn't sufficient at that point. The reason I suggest more taper is these things expand "beyond" anything that is necessary at long range and sacrifice a lot of weight at higher velocities. Bear in mind that all of these changes would affect balance and obturation to some degree, so they would obviously need to do some homework (testing) to maintain accuracy, but I think it is doable.......Rich

PM your addy.

I have tons of the suckers.

I'm figuring that if she were trimmed back a bit, the hollow portion uniformed, to receive a press fit brass or alum tip it may just work........

It would be better if Nosler filled the cavity and gave up on the 1300 FPS expansion idea. The 1300 fps expansion market must be for those shooting the 25-20 cartridge. The Stevens, not the Winchester,

 

[elkaholic]

Kirby....here are a couple of pics of the SXR's. I don't remember what velocity the double jacket was, but it was fairly high. The mule deer bullet impact was around 2400'......Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Kirby.....I couldn't get everything to load at once so here is another pic. You may have seen this one?

 

[Pdvdh]

Kirby,
Rich's SXR bullet shoots very well out of the 300 Win Mag you built for me also. In fact, better than any other bullet I've tried. That with the aluminum tip that some express concern about as a compromise to accuracy. They first load I developed with Rich's bullet shot better than the best load I developed for the non-tipped Berger 210 VLD following a fair amount of load development effort.

Here's a photo of on-game performance - a bull caribou. It was a tough tracking job.

 

[elkaholic]

Kirby,
Rich's SXR bullet shoots very well out of the 300 Win Mag you built for me also. In fact, better than any other bullet I've tried. That with the aluminum tip that some express concern about as a compromise to accuracy. They first load I developed with Rich's bullet shot better than the best load I developed for the non-tipped Berger 210 VLD following a fair amount of load development effort.

Here's a photo of on-game performance - a bull caribou. It was a tough tracking job.

Paul.....that blood trail still cracks me up! I remember someone saying "that's not a "trail", it's a freeway"

 

[MontanaRifleman]

WOW Paul.... What are the details of the shot... range, velocity, bullet path through animal, any bone hit, internal cavitation, exit wound?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Here's my advise for Nosler. Start by thinking out of the box. These ABLR's are nothing more than Amax bullets with a little thicker base. They are a cross between a varmint bullet and the traditional so-called controlled expansion bonded bullets, only the expansion isn't very controlled at High velocities... and guess what Nosler.... Long Range shooters shoot high velocity cartridges.

Nosler, if you are reading. You have an outstanding controlled expansion bullet in the Partition. Take the Partition and make it a VLD long range bullet. Design the tip and nose for the expansion velocity you can that will still hold up to extreme velocities produced by LONG RANGE rifles. If the nose comes apart during high velocity contact, that's OK, as long as a majority of the bullet remains in tact. Blunt frontals cause a lot of damage. Your ABLR's are already coming apart big time leaving very little of the bullet intact.

Aslo, try making bullets for tighter twist rates. I will not shoot a bullet that stabilizes in an 11 twist when I can shoot a heavier, higher BC one that stabilizes in a 10 twist. I will pick a 230 Berger Hybrid before a 210 whatever.