New to long range

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by woodscandg, May 10, 2009.

  1. woodscandg

    woodscandg Member

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    Hello my name is Chad, I am a deployed soldier looking to get started in longe range. I have a rem 700 sps in .300 wsm with a leupold 4.5-14x50 vx-3. Looking to shoot no further than 500 yards. Hunting Oklahoma whitetail. Will this equipment get the job done and what kind of factory ammo would you reccomend. Also looking at replacing trigger. Was looking at the timney and the jewell. Any thoughts?
     
  2. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Chad

    You are good to go you have a great rig to start off with. Do you handload? If not no worries. What you will have to do is buy a good selection of factory ammo and try the diffrent brands to see which one shoots better in your rifle.

    I would sent the scope back to the leupold custom shop and have them install M1 turrets.

    If you want a new trigger listen up go to BROWNELLS and send them an e-mail asking them to walk you through the Military/ Law enforcment discount. It will regester you in there data base and you will get a discount IT IS WORTH IT!

    Keep your head down
    SSG Jon
     

  3. woodscandg

    woodscandg Member

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    SSG Jon, thank you for the advice. How much do they charge for turrets? As far as the trigger, any advice on brand or style? Not to worried about price, just quality. The factory trigger is terrible. Would love to handload but not sure where to start! Always loved weapons but now taking it seriously, wanting to take as many armorer courses as I can. Again thank you for your help, SPC Woods, Chad
     
  4. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome. Both triggers would be good, but the Jewel gives you much more adjustment. For a field rifle you may not want to go under 2 lbs for your trigger pull anyway so the Timeny may be what you are looking for. Jewel triggers will adjust down to a couple ounces and that is geared more for your benchrest shooting.

    I shoot a WSM as well, admittedly I haven't had the opportunity to take game farther than 350 yet, but if conditions are good and the opportunity presents itself, I'd feel comfortable taking white tail out past 800.

    For ammo, if you don't want to start loading just yet... you would be fine with either 165 gr class ammo or 180 grain ammo. You just have to try some stuff out. If I had to test I'd buy a cheap box of Federal 165 and federal 180's and see which one shot better. Then I'd take the winning weight and buy a couple different brands of that weight and test them. A boat tail is preferred, but not necessary for just 500 yards. Better to hit consistently and have to aim a little higher than to have a super flat shooter that throws buckshot.

    If you want to limit your testing to save money, one of the first I would try would be federal premium vital shocks Nosler BT's 180. IMHO, the Ballistic tip is an excellent choice for white tail but the 150, and even the 165 grain will be going a little fast and make a mess of the game at less than 100 yards. The Accubonds are very good (I handload 180 ab's for mine and have very good luck) but they are pretty expensive to buy factory loaded.

    Now, if you have the urge to start a potentially time consuming and very addicting habit/hobby, start buying a press, dies, and other tools for handloading :)

    Good luck, Mark.

    Also, A good drop chart may be all you need, rather than the M1 turrets. The turrets will just make the dialing easier. A good ballistics program is needed, and a reliable velocity to start with. Exball is excellent, but I use the FREE one at http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html
    You can not go with what is posted on the web for your velocity. every rifle is different and generally published velocities are higher than what you will actually get. You can either use a Chronograph to test the load, or you can get pretty close by shooting at 2 targets with a known distance (100 yards and 300 yards for example... the farther the better) and play with your ballistics program to find the velocity. However, no matter how good your ballistics program is, you ALWAYS have to test your drop charts on targets. Your scope may or may not have true 1/4 IPH or MOA (inch per hundred or minute of angle) adjustments, your Ballistic coefficient may not be right on... the list goes on. Point being that there are lots of variables and consistency and verification is/are the name of the game.
    OK, I'll stop rambling now...lol
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  5. woodscandg

    woodscandg Member

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    You guys are awesome. As far as handloading goes, so many different presses, don't want a single stage? Right? What do you sugguest for a beginner. Excellent information on the ammo though. Is it possible with the finger clicks to adjust for elevation or just use holdover? By the way, I enjoy the rambling, good way to learn is to listen dilligently to the knowlegeable. lightbulb
     
  6. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    Again, I want to stress the fact that I still consider myself a novice at the long range gig, I just do lots of research and as much target shooting as I can find time for and have been reloading for 16 years. I've learned sooo much since I joined the forum... Lots of guys here are much more experience than me, so feel free to take what I have to say with a grain of salt...

    Most serious shooters will twist turrets for any distant shot. I personally sight in for .5" high at 200 and hold over to 350, maybe 400. after that I will turn the turret. It gets harder to judge how far you are holding over the farther out you go.

    Most guys use a single stage press or a good turret press. The turret presses allow you to set up multiple dies once and not have to re-adjust them each time you change dies. However, I'd suggest a Co-axel, Redding big boss, RCBS rock chucker, or if you want to go on the cheap, a Lee classic press (as long as it has an O frame). There are many many links on the site that go into detail about what loading equipment to get. I think AJ peacock went into detail a few times about his loading process.

    If you do want a progressive setup, I believe the Dillan 650 is the only real choice for the WSM sized cartidges. If you plan on shooting varmint and loading a thousand rounds per sitting than the progressive is the way to go.

    Progressive presses use volume to measure powder. Some powders work well with this, but most require weighing for each load to be accurate. The two most basic types of powders are stick powder (looks like mechanical pencil lead broke into little pieces) and sphereicle which looks like tiny tiny round balls. the sphericle powder will meter quite well by volume, but the stick powder generally doesn't meter out quite as well. And IMHO, the best powders available for big game rifles is stick powder.
    With that said, there are many many people out there who are getting very good results from simply volume metering... but I don't trust it.

    You will hear lots of differing opinions about loading...The best thing for you to do is to talk to someone who loads who can show you the ropes.
     
  7. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    Chad,

    Thank You for what you do.

    I think that the first thing you should look into that will give you the most return, would be getting the equipment to begin hand loading. In the end it will save you money on ammunition, and most importantly you will be able to load much better quality ammunition than any of the factory stuff. Once you have high quality ammunition, then start working on the rifle.

    jmho, Steve
     
  8. woodscandg

    woodscandg Member

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    Thank you for your support. Have a bonus due this month, re-inlistment. Planning on getting a decent set up. Still don't know what kind of press I need to research. What brands of brass, primers, powder, etc. to look for. Any experienced handloaders in Oklahoma that want to help a rookie? Taken all the info and learning I can get. Going through old posts and reading so may find part of what I need. Thank you, SPC Woods.
     
  9. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    Primers you can use include large rifle and large rifle mag. I use CCI BR2's. My favorite powder is H4350. I have had good luck with Win brand brass, but have just made the switch to Norma.
     
  10. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    With the WSM, go with Norma Brass (winchester is second choice), LR primers and try H4350, RL17, and Norma MRP powders.

    Those are the three "go to" powders for the WSM. Other can work, but those three always work and best normally.

    Almost no one is having to use Magnum primers. No need too and they give much higher ES/SD normally in the WSM case.

    If you can get Federal 210 primers they are first choice, if not Wolf LR, then CCI.

    For whitetails try the Barnes TTSX bullets I like the 168 grainers. If you want a LR bullet try the 208 Amax from Hornady.

    As for loading, at this point I would not recommend a progressive for two reasons. #1 too easy to make a mistake if you do not know exactly what and how to set them up and to follow the correct sequences. #2, they cannot throw powder accurately in sizes for magnum cases. No one I know or have heard of is making quality comp loads for a magnum on a progressive.

    Good used Rockchucker, Forester etc with simple but quality beam scale such as RCBS 10-10 would be ideal starting. Get the Sierra and Hodgen reloading manuals to start with. Look at retail prices of both the presses and scales and then go to Ebay. You can buy good used for 40-50%. Save the money for bullets and powder. Later you can progress to a electronic powder system, but you will still use the scale also.

    I would not bother to buy another trigger at this point either. Putting a $200 Jewell on a stock remington is like putting a $1000 set of spinners on a Hugo. All you need at this point is a $40 trigger job by a good smith and set at 2.5 lbs crisp and clean for the Rifle Basix trigger. You can get the military discount with brownells and order it from them. Be sure to get their large catalog also. You can buy a good stock from them also later.

    When you rebarrel and customize it, go with the Rifle basix trigger for $100 or if you just want to spend $200 plus buy the Jewell. Both are more than ideal for what you want.

    Also check with Leupold Marketing dept about the military discount program. Ask for Myra.

    BH
     
  11. theodore

    theodore Well-Known Member

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    You can get custom turrets also. In any formats- mils, moas, yardages...
    It is best to take the gun with the particular load and get the true bullet drop path before sending that data in to get a custom turret set-up in yards.
    -Check out the "kenton industry" website to save explanation on what a custom turret is capable of on certain scopes.

    For max range hunting, some bullet path calculations include velocity at all ranges along with the drop of the bullet. A good rule of thumb is 2000fps for minimum impact velocity depending on the bullet to get good expansion. A bullet that doesn't open up results in wounded animal likely to get away. So those hard military bullets aint gonna work for hunting game, they really are for military applications only like piercing heavy armors and killing people.

    All bullets and caliber combo are different for minimum impact velocity. I shoot berger vlds because it has high bc, out-pentrates all other hunting bullets I know of and has a violent expansion after pentrating about 2-3" in to an animal. The 7mm 168vld @ 3050fps pentrates 3/8" steel at 500 yards and the recommended minimum impact velocity is about 1800fps so this load easily keeps that speed beyond 1000 yards. Excellent for deer and elk.
    Those accubonds are cleaner (not such a violent expansion) and has a lower bc so it is slower than the vlds at extended ranges. Yet those accubonds can still go over 1000 yards with the right load and gun for big game hunting. Accubond, hornady, berger, lapua, sierra, and on... they all will easily take big game out over 500 yard with hunting bullets. Some target bullets are not consistent on big game due to inadequate pentration.

    Here ya go! Some turret and bullet info- you got a broad topic!:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  12. woodscandg

    woodscandg Member

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    Thank you for the good advice on presses. Would love to bed my 700 action in a mcmillan or similar stock and move to heavier barrel. Gotta talk the wife into it....lol. What die set will I need for the rockchucker? Case trimmers?
     
  13. woodscandg

    woodscandg Member

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    Alright, bought a redding t-7 6700 turret press with the automatic priming system. What else will I need to get started?
     
  14. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    the 300wsm has plenty of energy to 500 yards for okla whitail. 150 , 165 or 180 baltip any would be fine just find one that shoots 3 shot less than an inch for three three shot groups. l really like leup scopes, shilen triggers, macmiln stocks and krieger barrels. r