Need advise on lr scopes

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by TMOS, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. TMOS

    TMOS Member

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    The top end scopes is very expensive and i want to make the right choice.I have a S&B12-50X56 and a Zeiss 6-24x56.Curently i am busy with a new rifle project and i need a scope.
    My opinion on theS&B scope is as follows:brilliant lenses havent seen anyting better,turrets works great,scope is heavy,the magnification is sort of a problem because it starts at 12x, biggest downside is the eye relieve, it is a problem on heavy recoil rifles.The zeiss lenses is not so good as the S&B,turrets work great,scope also heavy,exellent hunting scope but not so good target scope- the reticle is rapid-z7.

    What is important to me is 1.repeatability of turrets
    2.lense quality
    3.reticle
    4.field of view
    So far it looks like March 5-50x56 would fit all the criteria, but i havent looked through it, havent even seen it.
    the scope will be used for target shooting as well as hunting. Can anyone please advise me or give a better suggestion.

    thanks
    TMOS.
     
  2. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    the scopes you have are top shelf, the best so to speak. i have a March, a 2.5-25 compact. i'm using it to hunt with, it's a great scope for that. not that i've used it yet. Premier makes a 5-25 i think with your choice of several reticles, excellent scopes. you havn't stated the distance you intent to shoot, the targets you intend to engage, or your preference in reticles. some more info might help getting some response.
     

  3. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

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    You've already got good target scope in the S&B and a good hunting scope in the Zeiss

    Comments on your list of important features:
    1.repeatability of turrets - you can get repeatable turrets in a $200 Burris or a $4000 US Optics riflescope. While not all scopes have repeatable knobs most reputable brands do.

    2.lens quality - You've got to go really cheap not to get good quality lenses. High magnification and looking though lots of atmosphere (long range shooting) gives crappy images. Going from decent qualtiy lenses to the best that exist makes very little difference. It's not the lens quality that separates good quallty designs from poor ones. It's coatings and properly designed internal baffles and lens stops. A good test of a scope is to look a a distant hillside with the sun outside of the field of view but with the scope facing generally toward the sun. Look for loss of contrast, flares and other artifacts of stray light. The human eye can deal with a large range of brightness but it's can't do anything to correct for loss of contrast or stray light.
    Even resolution isn't very important for a rifle scope to allow accurate shooting.

    3.reticle - yes, every rifle scope has one. the question is what you want the reticle to do for you to assist in determining your point of aim. A simple crosshair works fine if you use external sensors and target knobs. I'm like the Horus mil grid reticles which eliminate wtiddling target knobs, but they don't help in making environmental measurements. There's no "best" way determine trajectories in the field. In the end your're still left with estimating downrange cosswind bullet deflection. There's no available scope or portable instrument that does that for you.

    4.field of view - A cheap pair of binoculars has a vastly better field of view than any rifle scope for a given magnification.and resolution. Searching for targets (game) using a rifle scope is just foolish. Field of view in a rifle scope is proportional to: (eyepiece_clear_diameter/(eye_relief * scope_magnification)). It has nothing to do with scope quality, tube diameter, or objective diameter and it not an indicator of how well it will help you shoot. You only need enough field of view in a rifle scope so that once you've identified a potential target you can put the target within the field of view of the scope as you bring the rifle to your shoulder. That's generally not a problem up to about 20x magnification for typical rifle scopes.

    The function of a riflescope is to allow launching a bullet at an appropriate angle between the bore and the line of sight. That is not a fixed angle and varies with every shot. A good scope will make the process of detrminging that angle, setting the angle, and holding the line of sight on the target while firing as easy as possible. Bad scopes make one or more of those more difficult. If you want picture window views use binoculars or a spotting scope.

    Also worth considering:

    Price : Does the price keep you from buying better ammo, a better rifle, or spending money on trips to hunting grounds or target ranges? If not then expensive scopes are nice and maybe "better" than less expensive ones, otherwise they're a detriment.

    Ruggedness. - Many $200 scopes will withstand the recoil of a 30-378 Wby with a brake or 50 BMG sporter. No scop I know of at any price mounted on a rifle will survive being droped four feet onto a rock and landing on the objective bell. Does you're warranty cover that? A broken scope puts an end to your day's activity for whatever reason it gets broken.
    =
     
  4. TMOS

    TMOS Member

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    Dave
    I want to shoot from 10m to 1000m, i want to hunt with this scope and want to targetshoot up to 1000m.Reticles, i luckely made my mind up , a plain duplex or at the most a mil-dot reticle, reason there will be a rangefinder to get distances, and i believe it is better to dial the turrets than to use the holdovers.
    that is why repeatability of the turrets is very important to me.AND i want my reticle in the second focal plain because there is a rangefinder.
    I know it gets complicated if you want to serve 2 diciplines, if it were just targetshooting the S&B would be the choice but the 12xmin is an obsticle for hunting in certain conditions. (excuse spelling)

    good day
    TMOS.
     
  5. TMOS

    TMOS Member

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    LouBoyd

    Ihear you but still what scope would you recommend irrispective of price?

    TMOS.
     
  6. submoa

    submoa Well-Known Member

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    look at the upper end vortex and nightforce
     
  7. jpd676

    jpd676 Well-Known Member

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    If price isn't a consideration you have the whole world open to you. The scopes you have are great. I would recommend a Nightforce, Sightron SIII or a Super Sniper 5-20. All three of these scopes have great glass, are durable and very repeatable turrets. I have cheaper Super Sniper scopes and they always return to zero and are durable as could be. I just purchased a Sightron SIII 6-24 MOA scope and it has been very reliable so far. The glass in it is outstanding.
     
  8. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

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    I can't recommend what YOU should buy. What you're trying to accomplish is all important. Just saying hunting and target shooting isn't very descriptive. What do you consider "long range" for hunting and target shooting? What do you hunt? Where do you hunt? What style of hunting? What type of target shooting?
    What instrumentation do you use regularly?

    My two favorite scopes are the Leupoold Mk4 16x40 of (mil dot or target dot doesn't matter much). The other is the Horus Falcon with the H37 Reticle. The Horus Falcon would be hands down my favorite but it weighs 33 oz versus 22 oz for the Mk 4 Leupold. I own more Burris 10x40 mil-dots than any other scope but they're mostly on on ARs and "offhand" bolt actions. They're a "best buy" for light weight "moa" shooting to 600 + yards.

    I favor 16x for most long range shooting. When looking though 1000+ yards of atmosphere more than 40mm objective diameter and more than 16x rarely makes any improvment in accuracy, at least not in the Arizona high desert where I shoot. The period of time at sunrise and sunset where the larger objective is significant for usable image brightness is under 15 minutes. Scope magnification, resolution, or brightenss is rarely a limitation to my shooting accuracy. Uncertinaly in downrange wind deflection almost always is the limiting factor. Doping crosswinds in clear air and little or no windblown vegetation is very difficult. More scope simply doesn't help. Sighter shot work well when impact dust puffs are visible and for that there's nothing better than the Horus reticles, at least not that's availabe in a riflescope.

    You could buy a S&B, Hensholt, or US Optics for 2 to 3 x more money with the Horus H37 reticle. In my opiinion that mostly just gets you more tears if you drop your rifle on rocks scope first. No scope will survive that.
     
  9. COBrad

    COBrad Well-Known Member

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    I'm using a S&B PMII 4-16x50 with Holland's ART reticle for the same use and distances you have described. It works great. It is heavy, but it is not too bulky, the turrets have been precise, and the glass provides a fantastic image. I have been shooting small varmints and similar sized targets out to 1200 yards. I also use a 2.5-10x32 Nightforce on my elk rifle. It is a really good scope as well, and I have shot small varmints out to 600 with it. For comparison sake, I set both scopes to 10 and looked at the same hillside, at ranges from 600 to 1000. Okay, a lot of difference in the objective lenses, but still, the image through the S&B provides detail that makes it look like HD compared to a standard view. I have this mounted on an 11lb long range rifle, but would not find it overpowering on an 8 lb hunting rifle.
     
  10. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    I concur with LouBoyd's advice, especially with respect to glare and contrast. If you are used to S&B and Zeiss, which have high contrast, don't be persuaded to look at Vortex (except for Razor), Sightron SIII or Super Sniper. They will not have nearly the same contrast.

    For big game hunting, you should stick with a large objective (50 mm or larger). If it were a target only scope, then 40 mm would be fine.

    Your applications seem to dictate a large zoom ratio of at least 5:1.

    How important is weight to you? If you need to minimize weight, then you should look closely at Leupold VX-6 and Swarovski Z5 or Z6.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  11. TMOS

    TMOS Member

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    Just want to let you know i ordered a March 5-50x56 with mlr-3 reticle, i shall have to wait for 8 weeks for delivery. I really hope i did the right thing.Now for the waiting!!!!!
    TMOS.