More Terminal Performance Tests - Introduction

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by royinidaho, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    This post is to let you know that I'm not sitting on my duff.

    Descriptive wise, those damn'd Bergers continue to amaze me. I down loaded a 150 VLD. When I found the bullet it lacked only 2" of penetrating the full 24". It deviated from a straight line by only 3" in 22". Hmmmmmmm.

    I also fired one reduced load with a 338 280gr HAT. It litterly blew my "box" apart. I found the aluminum tip at the 12" mark. Spatter on the upper part of the container shows that big things happened at about 14". I sifted, sorted and squeezed every cubic inch of the media and could not find any of the expended bullet other than the tip which with a little straightening could be used again. Neither could I find remains of several HATs shot into the blow sand back stop. I even took the front off of the back stop and spread the sand on card board and found nothing. It has been very difficult finding remains of the HATs.

    I filled a plastic waste basket with loose, dry blow sand in an attempt to isolate the bullets to a more manageable quantity of media. My first test was a 277 Nosler 150 Ballistic Tip. It's was pretty comical. The remains of the jacket was laying on top of the sand only 2" from the front edge. MV was 3450 and the basket was at 200 yards. That was a pretty quick turn. :confused: Talk about disapointing.:rolleyes:

    A reduced load with a 338 300gr SMK was next. The remains were easy to find. Just dig down and follow the heat. When I touched somehing and it burned my finger tip I found a knarly looking jacket.

    The HAT's performance was similar to the SMK. Nothing remaining except a knarly portion of the jacket.

    The HAT's jacket is very soft compared to the SMK. I can flex the HAT's shrapnel but will cut a finger and not be able bend the SMK's.

    As pigs are hard to come by around here, I'm testing a new media that so far is very friendly in every way except for finding the bullet remains. A metal detector may be in order.

    The initial report is that the media works very well so far. The container allows for a 24" bullet travel. Of the two shots so far there are no exit wounds.


    I'll include pics in next update.

    BTW, the elk are bugeling out back and its tough to concentrate on much.:D
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  2. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    Oh sure, you get us going again and then NO PICS and now we have to wait for "the rest of the story".;)

    Looking forward to seeing what you're up to over there in spud land now.:)
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Jeez, don't you sleep?:D

    Spud harvest has started and I'm chasing yield monitors trying to make a buck.:( Plus took some aerial photos this morning. Seems there are some strange things going in some of those spud fields. No crop circles yet.....

    Nite - nite. Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite.
     
  4. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    Strange things going on over here too. The drug cops are having a record year pulling "wacky tobacky" plants out of the grape fields and corn fields.;);)

    They sure are making some "entrepeneurs" very unhappy, and broke.:rolleyes: But at least some of the unhappy "farmers" are getting a free vacation courtesy of Uncle Sam.;)

    Waiting patiently on the next installation.
     
  5. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Roy, i had similar results with the HAT's. i think they come apart easier than the SMK's. my first impression was i wouldn't want to use them on elk.
     
  6. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update Roy. Sound like that media is working ok. Will be intersted in hearing more results at longer ranges. Anyone tested the .308 cal bullets yet? I would be up to it if Icould get some.

    As for the bullets exploding, whether it's a Berger, SMK, or HAT my plan would be to use them at ranges greater than 500-600 yds and more controlled expansion bullets at less than that. I know some of you guys like the Bergers at close ranges as well, but I'm not totally sold on that. I might experiment on antelope. It's good to be able to shoot 3 antelope per season here. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  7. Jon A

    Jon A Well-Known Member

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    I've got some 210's I won't be using (my rifle doesn't seem to like them) if you're interested.
     
  8. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, but I've got a Sako 300 WSM with an 11" twist. From what I've read the 210's need a tight twist. I think the largest I could use with my barrel would be the 180's
     
  9. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    My son shot a bull caribou with a 168 gr Berger VLD, 7mm Rem Mag, muzzle velocity 3080 fps, from a distance of about 80 yds this past Monday. I prepare 160 gr Nosler Accbs and 160 gr Barnes TSX loads for this rifle also, but we had the Berger in the chamber because we were expecting the caribou to step out between 800 - 900 yds. Instead of that the caribou never did step out. After about 25 minutes, we figured the animal had moved off into the brush and was gone for the time being. On the way back to our spotting location, we bumped into the animal in the willows at about 50 yds. I told my son to change out the load but he didn't want to take the chance on having the animal bolt during the reload to the Barnes TSX bullet. Anyhow, he pasted it with a perfect shot to minimize meat damage - just behind both of the shoulders about 2/3s the way up from the brisket. The bullet exited and the animal bled like a stuck hog for a distance of about 60 yds before piling up. The Berger did the job, but while butchering the animal, the meat damage to the near side of the animal was excessive. Even though the shot missed the shoulders completely, there was blood-shot damaged meat up to the back strap and forward to the front of the shoulder under the flaps of meat overlying the ribcage. I've shot a lot of big game animals over the past 35 yrs with Nosler Partitions, Nosler Ballistic Tips, Nosler Accubonds, Sierra Game Kings, Barnes X and TSX, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, Speer Grand Slams, Hornady Core-locks, etc..., and there was just more meat damage than necessary for a simple shot behind the shoulders through both lungs. I would have changed out to the Barnes TSXs had I been the shooter.

    This is only the second animal I've butchered that's been shot with the Berger VLD. The other was a black bear at 20 feet with a 300 Win Mag Berger 210 gr VLD in the alders this past spring. The bear only weighed about 170 lbs. It was a finishing shot with the bear laying on its side. The bullet entered the brisket and no pieces of the bullet ever reached the backstraps, let alone exit the top of the back. The bullet shrapnelled into itty bitty pieces. Killed the bear instantly like a bomb going off inside the boiler room. Don't ask me why I used a Berger 210 VLD at 20 feet - too long of a story. Anyhow the Bergers shoot lights out in both my 7mm Rem Mag Tikka T3 and a custom Lawton 7000 300 Win Mag. I think they'll be a great bullet at ranges greater than 300 to 400 yds. Any closer than that and there are Nosler Accubond and other controlled expansion bullets that will do the job just fine with much less meat damage. Some like the bang flop, DRT effect of an explosive bullet through both shoulders - the high shoulder hit. I prefer to shoot animals behind the shoulders through both lungs, long or short range. It just doesn't feel right having to throw away a bunch of bullet-damaged blood shot meat. Maybe it's because I've killed quite a number of animals with lung shots and don't have any concerns about following and recovering the lung shot animal after it travels 30 to 100 yds after the shot. The only time I'll aim for the shoulders is if the animal could jump off a cliff or reach potentially unrecoverable terrain.

    So I've got the Berger VLDs loaded and and preped for long range shots. I fully expect them to be a terrific long range bullet based on the Best of the West video and other reports. I just don't have the first-hand experience with a long range VLD hit as of yet. Another positive is that the cost for the Berger VLDs is quite reasonable and they're readily available.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  10. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    This might be a little off topic but I tend to agree with Phorwath. I have never lost a lung shot animal. About 80% have dropped in their tracks or within a couple of steps. The other 20% have not traveled more than 50 yds. And when I butcher an animal I dont like seeing a lot of bloodshot meat.

    Anyway, I think the high BC bullets have a good niche at the longer ranges. Has anyone tested the HAT 180's yet?
     
  11. tillroot1

    tillroot1 Well-Known Member

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    Roy, if your testing goes well for you and you are looking for more of these bullets, I have around 50 give or take a couple, make me a offer and they are yours.
    Ron Tilley
     
  12. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I would have shot a Ram Dall sheep with the .308 180 HATs last week but I couldn't get them to shoot well enough out of my Lawton 7000 300 Win Mag. I tried two different powders and variable seating depths. The groups at 300 yds were about 2.5 X larger than the groups I get with 210 Berger VLDs or 200 Nosler Accubonds. I shot the Ram at about 360 yds with a 200 Accubond.

    So I've got about 75 of the 180 gr HATs at a 15% discount from what I paid for them if anyone wants to try some out. They look pretty wicked but my rifle didn't like them. I could sell them 10 or 20 at a time if anyone wants to give them a whirl down your tubes.
     
  13. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I'll gen up the post on today's activities tomorrow evening.

    The testing went very well. However the results are revealing.

    Just a hint of the results, No thanks.;)
     
  14. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    MONTANA: 210 .30 VLD's

    They stabilise just fine in my 1-10" 300 WM, even as slow as 2750 fps, so if you have enough throat length to get them out a bit to use case capacity you should be okay with 1-11". I'd try certainly try them if I were you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2008