Looking for a scope

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Ol'Gator, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    Brand new to this forum and have found some great reads. A lot to learn here. My qusetion is about scopes. I have the chance to pick up a almost new zeiss 6-24X56 What I haven't seen is any mention of this brand/model. Anything I should know before making this deal?

    Thanks
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Ol'Gator,

    Welcome to the board. Its a great bunch of folks who do a bunch of great shootin. A wealth of knowledge here....priceless.

    Have a ziess and haven't heard much wrong with them.

    I don't know that they have target knobs or how repeatable/accurate the clicks are. This would be good to know if adjusting for different ranges is going to be a factor.

    The 56mm should gather the light but may be a bit large and clunky and most probably need some tall mounts.

    What's it goin' on? if I could be snoopy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     

  3. ds

    ds Well-Known Member

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    Is it the Zeiss Diavari VM/V? If so it is a great scope. Target turrets, available with lit or non-lti reticle.

    SWFA has a pic and pricing.

    david.
     
  4. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Roy, yes I wish I'd found this group of folks a long time ago. A wealth of info to be had. Although I have zip experience in long range shooting, I have become very interested in getting involved. I wil be getting my feet wet with a H-S Precision 7mm STW. Thats what the scope is for.

    At this point, I hope to come up with a combination that will give me the ability to take game out to 500 yards. I realize this would be a slam-dunk for many of the folks here. Where I hunt 300-500 yard shots are not that uncommon.
     
  5. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    ds, yes that is the scope. I haven't seen it yet but I do know it has lighted Mil-Dot reticle. Honestly, didn't ask about target turrets. Guess I need to check on that.
     
  6. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    Ol'Gator, Just getting started out you might consider a reticle that would allow shots out to 600 yds without the target knob turning. As Ian M pointed out in a recent article, a good reticle sighted in correctly can keep you on for hunting purposes. We aren't shooting paper. After 600, too many variables and you then need to click to compensate. I use a mildot system and out to 600 yds, game is in trouble. Much friendlier in the field, and you can use a much smaller scope if you carry a lighter rifle and actually walk. Just a thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Ol'Gator,

    W/the 7STW and decent shooting loads of the 160gr and greater weight it will be a thumper well beyond 5-600 yds.

    With the Mil-Dot scope you shouldn't have to worry about clicks till way past 850 or so, depending on a lot of things.

    Don't know if that scope has the reticle in the first or second focal plane. If in the first plane, regardless of the power the mil-dot value will be the same.

    If its in the second plane then it will be calibrated (1 Mil = 3.6inches) at most probably 10 power which in my opinion and experience is sufficient for most, nearly 100% of shooting. But if you want to zoom up to max power for definition of a small target or zoom down in low light conditions the mil value changes proportionately with power.

    That'll drive ya nuts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif At least it does me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Other than that just about everything about a Carl Z is pretty good.

    I had a 2nd focal plane scope and could keep track of things unless there was game in the field of view then I kind of went bonkers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

    Switched to a decent 1st focal plan scope and life got good, well......at least better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  8. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again Roy, yes it is 2nd FP After reading a lot here I began to see the difference. The scope deal is by no means
    complete. I'd like to get started on the right foot so I'm open to suggestions with regard to scopes.

    If what I understand is correct, shooting at the "same/calibrated" power setting will result in FFP performance when shooting a 2nd FP scope??? If this is correct, seems to render the higher magnification somewhat useless should the desired power (minumim error) be 10 power and the best power setting for the shot is much higher. I could be all wet here.
     
  9. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    Thought I'd throw this in.

    From Zeiss:

    "Other interesting features, some of them exclusive, are: Reticle in the second image plane, so its size remains constant across the entire power range. At high magnifications little of the target is concealed -- an advantage when sighting small targets at great distances."
     
  10. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    Ol´Gator, I vote for FFP reticles instead of 2 FP. It is true that a 2 FP reticle will let you see the target.. but a FFP with a proper reticle will do that too.

    I´ve seen and looked through one of those zeis and is great, but the FFP gives you the best and this one does not have it.

    If you go for a FFP, check reticle subtension. Zeis makes other models as the 3-12 x 56 in FFP, but don´t know the reticle subtension in the mil-dot ( number 43).

    Premier reticles can change a leupold into a FFP.... but my next scope is going to be a Schmidt bender PMII with a klein reticle ( mildot style, no dots but lines), reticle subtends very little.
     
  11. ds

    ds Well-Known Member

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    It may be useful to think about the
    type of reticle and adjustments, plus amount of internal adjustment.

    Looking at scopes in the 6-24 power range:

    With 2FP scopes Hensoldt (military Zeiss), Zeiss, Nightforce and Swarovski are all at or near the top of the tree. Hernsoldt has 34mm tube a good amount of internal adjustemt and excellent glass but warranty is only for 2 years - it is intended to cover two years of hard military use.

    The VMV Zeiss has excellent glass, the mildot reticle has a little 12x reminder at the top of it to remind you to set the scope at 12x for the mildot scale to be correct (24x would give you 1/2 mils and 6x 2mils).

    Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 or 5.5-22x50, built like a tank, good optics, good value, lots of up adjustment, the illumination adjustment is crap on the NXS IMO. Swarovski (PVS 6-24x50)- I would check how much adjustment (up) it has I think not a lot but the TDS reticle might be a bonus but no lit reticle.

    If you are going to "click" it is good to have a reticle and click values the same. Eg mildot reticle is easier to use with cm clicks (milrad) adjustments or if you want 1/4 MOA clicks go with a MOA type reticle - Nightforce have a good selection of reticles and both MOA and milrad adjustment options.

    FFP scopes, in the quality you are talking S&B or USO. With USO I have only really used fixed power ones - have played with a couple of SN3`s so hard top comment other than big and heavy.

    S&B I would forget the Precision Hunter 4-16x50 - not much adjustment and go for the PMII scopes - 34mm tubes. I really liked my 4-16x50 PMII and love my 5-25x56 PMII. The 5-25x56 is also big and heavy, on a hunting rifle I would have a look at the 4-16x50 PMII and 4-16x42 PMII (lit reticle). You can get them with 1/4 MOA adjustments or cm (milrad). The P3 and P4 reticles are mil based though. Speak to Pete Lincoln about S&B

    Plenty has been written on the pros and cons.

    One thought are you set on 6x-24x magnification range?

    David.
     
  12. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Ol'Gator,

    The reticle covering the target is is bunch of smoke, but most U.S. shooters seem to believe that.

    With the reticle in the first focal plane the Mil Dot is 0.2 mils and stays 0.2 mils no matter the power. When you zoom to 14X everthing gets preportionately bigger. The Mil Dot still subtends 0.2 mil on the side of an elk or body of a rock chuck.

    With the subject scope you first mentioned At 10 power (I think that would be the calibrated setting) the Mil Dot would cover 0.2 mils. 1 Mil @ 500 yds = 3.6*5 or 18" then 0.2*18 = 3.6". Half a Mil Dot would equal 1.8".

    Even with eyes as bad a mine that's good enough to shoot coyotes and rock chucks on a pretty regular basis. Without having to develop a different drop chart for each power I "think" I may be using that day.

    I use a Weaver Tactical 4.5-14 and flat love it. Though they quit making them.

    Then another thought: I wonder what the actual power of the scope is when set on "what I think is 10X". I haven't seen a scope with "clicks" for power, just a sliding scale.

    Get out your calculator and do some calcs on Mils and power settings. It drives me nuts. But some seem to like it.

    Also google on Mil Dot and watch what pops up. you could read all night.
     
  13. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    You guys don't know how much I appreciate this information. Obviously a new game for me and it has came at a good time. I don't have any problem with going to a different scope/power it was just a scope that became available.
     
  14. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Experience is the best teacher....as long as the experience is someone else's. Its a bunch less expensive too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif