Leverling rifle and scope ???

[Tnwhip]

OK I have leveled the rifle in a vice useing the scope base to level off of and got the cross hairs level with a plumb line 25yds. away. I have a scope level clamped to the scope. Shot a group at 100 yards did a straight line with a level on the target. Cranked up 15 inches shot another group, It was right on the line.
Now my problem is when I look through the scope and get what looks level to me the scope level is way off. With the level level the cross hairs just looks canted ? I guess it is just me the way I am holding the rifle looking at it on the bench?

 

[WildRose]

OK I have leveled the rifle in a vice useing the scope base to level off of and got the cross hairs level with a plumb line 25yds. away. I have a scope level clamped to the scope. Shot a group at 100 yards did a straight line with a level on the target. Cranked up 15 inches shot another group, It was right on the line.
Now my problem is when I look through the scope and get what looks level to me the scope level is way off. With the level level the cross hairs just looks canted ? I guess it is just me the way I am holding the rifle looking at it on the bench?

If your bubble level isn't mounted exactly 90 degrees square to your plumed cross hair you would get that effect.

Set it back up in your vise on the plum line and check your bubble level.

Also be dead sure your rifle is setting level before checking the cant with the plum line.

 

[Tnwhip]

If your bubble level isn't mounted exactly 90 degrees square to your plumed cross hair you would get that effect.

Set it back up in your vise on the plum line and check your bubble level.

Also be dead sure your rifle is setting level before checking the cant with the plum line.

I have checked it and double checked it and checked it again. I am getting my reciever level off of the flat on the ruger scope base clamped in a vice. Then set the cross hair on the plum line. Tighten the scope down then clamped the scope level on the scope. I level an inverted T. My cross hair is level with the T and on a plum line. When I shoot and crank it up the groups stay on the plum line at 100 yards. I have been told I am not very level headed. They may be right? lightbulb

 

[Sully2]

I have checked it and double checked it and checked it again. I am getting my reciever level off of the flat on the ruger scope base clamped in a vice. Then set the cross hair on the plum line. Tighten the scope down then clamped the scope level on the scope. I level an inverted T. My cross hair is level with the T and on a plum line. When I shoot and crank it up the groups stay on the plum line at 100 yards. I have been told I am not very level headed. They may be right? lightbulb

It can be "square with the world" and still be canted when MOUNTED TO YOUR SHOULDER!!!!. Its because the "pocket" that the butt fits into isnt perfectly verticle. My rifles are the same way and I have to ( bear with me here as I attempt this) get the toe of the recoil pad more into the top of my "boob" to make it more vertical.

Does that make sense??

 

[silvertip-co]

I have a sim problem. I am left handed and when I level a scope and look thru it looks fine to me. I can plumb and square and level it 5 diff ways but if I hand the rifle to a RHer he'll invariably say "your crosshairs are crooked".

I made a sort of a jig that sets on the rifle barrel and I put a 6" level on it. Then i go to the rear and put a square against the butt plate as a sort of a crosscheck as well as putting the 6" level on the scope base as a check. Then I level the scope with the elev cap off (or on if its a domed adjuster screw). In the 25 or so times I have used this method I've only had one scope be off and not track the shots plumb at 25y at the range. I checked my own rifle the other day at 300y and it tracked right up the plumb line on the levelled target as I adj 'up' elev.

Additionally this device I made can be used if a scope is too far forward and you want to loosen screws just a bit and slide the scope back without touching it and putting a cant on it or causing major readjustment. Ive used it on a few friends rifles for that purpose when their scopes were too far foward and it worked great.

Good luck getting level.

 

[WildRose]

It can be "square with the world" and still be canted when MOUNTED TO YOUR SHOULDER!!!!. Its because the "pocket" that the butt fits into isnt perfectly verticle. My rifles are the same way and I have to ( bear with me here as I attempt this) get the toe of the recoil pad more into the top of my "boob" to make it more vertical.

Does that make sense??

Yep which is one of the reasons the fully adjustable stock and butt plate were invented.

 

[WildRose]

I have checked it and double checked it and checked it again. I am getting my reciever level off of the flat on the ruger scope base clamped in a vice. Then set the cross hair on the plum line. Tighten the scope down then clamped the scope level on the scope. I level an inverted T. My cross hair is level with the T and on a plum line. When I shoot and crank it up the groups stay on the plum line at 100 yards. I have been told I am not very level headed. They may be right? lightbulb

They indeed may be right.

One question are you doing your plum line test on zero wind days?

If so, the go set it up and do some "quick mounts" and just look at it. Odds are pretty good it's your rifle mount that's causing the cant.

 

[Tnwhip]

Well if my scope mount is off. What if I set up on the bench got comfortable aimed at the target, clamp a scope level on the barrel, level the way I hold the rifle. Then set the scope level from that and the leveled inverted tee. Would it still track level?

 

[paphil]

I've done a lot of testing on that idea and it turns out that the allignment of the scope to the gun is not nearly as important as getting the scope vertical. ( read David Tubbs book) The adjustable stock and butt plate are, as mentioned above also a great help. I would do as you state, get comfortable on the bench and then rotate the scope to vertical. Then put the scope level on. Now, even though the gun is canted to fit your style of hold, the scope is vertical and will shoot and adjust for distance as intended. Gun cant does not matter, scope cant does!

 

[Tnwhip]

I've done a lot of testing on that idea and it turns out that the allignment of the scope to the gun is not nearly as important as getting the scope vertical. ( read David Tubbs book) The adjustable stock and butt plate are, as mentioned above also a great help. I would do as you state, get comfortable on the bench and then rotate the scope to vertical. Then put the scope level on. Now, even though the gun is canted to fit your style of hold, the scope is vertical and will shoot and adjust for distance as intended. Gun cant does not matter, scope cant does!

That is what I was thinking. I just needed another opinion. Thanks

 

[rinodods]

I'd have to disagree about rifle cant not being an issue. Having the rifle canted puts the scope off center of the bore. As the degree of cant gets worse you are starting to look like an old surplus rifle with the scopes mounted off to the side of the receiver. At some point you'll cause enough misalignment to see a windage drift at anything outside your zero. If your scope/mount and bore are not aligned to each other/gravity then you are causing a tracking issue. Tub and those guys get away with it because they shoot set distance and know the zero. Granted it might not matter much but it is there. Try shooting your pistol with it turned sideways and use the sights. You aren't going to shoot quite where you planned. If anyone thinks it doesn't matter at all then by all means turn that rifle sideways but align the scope to be vertical. Once you move out beyond your zero there will be a difference.

I've got some quick MS paint drawings that show this exaggerated a bit but you'll get the idea. Not saying I'm a expert because I'm always learning something new. Even if all this only makes me feel better I'll be more confident in my rifle. Take a read and consider. http://www.projectsavage.com/?q=content/exd-engineering-vertical-reticle-instrument

 

[Tnwhip]

I am going to try it the next time I get a chance. I will find out how much difference it makes on my rifle. If it doesn't track I will know. I may can go to my range next week sometime.

 

[paphil]

Rinodods, I agree with you when the cant is very pronounced. I'm talking about only a few degrees in either direction.

 

[rcdinaz]

I ave the same issue and have come to te conclsion my eye is not completely square. I even took the stok off so i coud set the magazine on a level surface and make sure all was square. It is square, apparently I am crooked.