Let's talk copper fouling

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Triggernosis, Feb 20, 2007.

  1. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Well-Known Member

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    Let\'s talk copper fouling

    Over the weekend I was having a discussion with a friend of mine regarding how often to clean our rifles. He shoots a GA Precision in .308 and generally knows his schit. He recommended hardly ever cleaning a rifle, saying that the bore will only get so full and then it'll remain consistent from there on out. He said he hadn't cleaned his rifle in over 800 rounds and it shoots well enough that we were banging gongs at 1,000 yards with it.
    I thought copper fouling was bad, but ya know, he's kinda got a point.
    What do y'all think about this?
     
  2. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    [ QUOTE ]
    "... saying that the bore will only get so full and then it'll remain consistent from there on out. He said he hadn't cleaned his rifle in over 800 rounds and it shoots well enough that we were banging gongs at 1,000 yards with it.
    I thought copper fouling was bad, but ya know, he's kinda got a point.
    What do y'all think about this?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not hardly - I think you need a new source of information.

    Ask those 1000yd match and BR shooters how often they clean their rifles.

    Bet it's more than every 800 rounds HA!

    .
     

  3. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    Most "gongs at 1000" are 2MOA +

    1000yd BR groups need to be 1/2-1MOA to be competetive...

    Just depends on the precision you require...

    60rds of 308 thru my broughton 5c = NO COPPER...but it is the carbon I worry about, not the copper...

    60rds thru my 1KBR 6mmBR (also Broughton 5C) also = no copper...but the carbon has bit me before...

    JB
     
  4. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    Tell me more about this "carbon fouling". i.e. Where in the barrel does it occur and how do you know you've got it?
     
  5. linksmechanic

    linksmechanic Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    go get some copper solvent and a nylon brush. Run a few patches through it with the solvent if there is greenish blue on the patches theres copper in there.
     
  6. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    I understand how to identify copper fouling, but how do you identify CARBON fouling?
     
  7. littledevil2873

    littledevil2873 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    Have a gunsmith borescope it. I went and picked up my new 6.5-06 imp a week ago and took a barrel off of another gun. Granted it is a pretty high performance gun but after 35 rounds it is starting to get carbon fouling.
     
  8. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    You will get a carbon ring right in front of the end of the case and throat and the first couple inches in the barrel. You can feel a tightness first couple inches and then slack. Guess what, probably carbon.

    BH
     
  9. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    A gunsmith friend of mine wont clean his rifles untill he notices the accuracy to drop off either. Hes into long range shooting, but not as much as me or any of us on here, I'd like to think anyways. He says that uneccesary cleaning wont do any good to the barrel, probly more harm then good he said. I kinda see the point to it, but I also read where BR and 1K shooters clean there barrels faithfully every 20-30 rounds. I tried to clean my barrels every 20-30 rounds and found that I was not getting all my copper solvent out of my barrel, and thus was eating away my barrel. I haven't clean faithfully like that since. I"ll clean my barrel when I notice accuracy is going south. I"ve went 80-100 rounds in my 25-06 and 7mm w/out noticing to much in the accuracy department. I shot a 1" group at 400 yards about 2 weeks ago out of my 7mm and it had at least 70-80 rounds through it at the time. So what gives?? I dont know, but I think there is such a thing as "over cleaning."
     
  10. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    [ QUOTE ]
    A gunsmith friend of mine wont clean his rifles untill he notices the accuracy to drop off either.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can tell you that somewhere between 20-30 shots my 6-250 goes from flirting w/the quarter minute mark @ 400 yds to a 1/2 MOA gun. Is this still good enough??? Sure it is but if I can do better by cleaning it, why not clean it!!
     
  11. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    Most Br shooters clean after every relay which is 10-20 shots however, there are more than a couple who will go all weekend (two matches) which is in the range of 40-80 shots and still win more than their share.

    As for copper solvent damaging barrels, I am not sure of any solvent out there that actually does that. Sweets is the closest.

    I always go with clean patches and get at least two dry and clean out the bore when I stop and then use one patch of the Montana Extreme Bore Conditioner and then one more patch.

    My first cold bore shot is not as far out as other techniques using say Kroil.

    BH
     
  12. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    Carbon fouling:

    --Bore scope is the only way to see it.
    --Increased pressure/velocity with a given standard load (when nothing else has changed, shows it
    --feel it, like BH posted above.

    My first indications are increased velocities which in turn give me vertical where there was none before.

    As of now, I go after carbon proactively.

    GM Top Engine Cleaner (Shooters choice or Butch's should work as well) with brushing to get most of the carbon, followed by a wipe-out soak to get the rest and the copper work for me.

    Along with that, I scrub a patch of JB paste thru every ~100rds or so to keep ahead of the carbon formation.

    If you think you have carbon issues(veloities increasing and groups suffering) check the velocity...then scrub with JB and check again...if the velocity dropped back down where it should be, you had carbon.

    These links may help:

    www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html
    www.6mmbr.com/jbwipeout.html

    Jason
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    That "friend" needs to get lost.Copper and carbon builds up in layers and the moisture can collect under causing pitting. I have seen accuracy fall off as the barrel fouls. Carbon can be removed with SLIP 2000 or GM top engine cleaner. Copper can be removed with Sweets7.62 or Barnes CR10 using a steel cored nylon brush and patch out untill no blue shows on the patch.If you have a stubborn case JB's bore paste is a good method to remove both kinds of fouling.
     
  14. sierra22

    sierra22 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Let\'s talk copper fouling

    You should pick up the reloading book from Norma.
    In it you'll find description of an experiment they did at their lad: Shooting a 7mm Remmag without cleaning and monitoring the pressure.

    Short story: After surprisingly few shots pressure got NASTY.