Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

[hubel458]

Also-- we are talking max range.. the two 375 cases,

Lethal and HE being done on our big bore case

necked will have at least 30 min less elevation at 2 miles,

with same bullet as used last year, than the best that

others have, with our speed, because 375 bullets easier to get best

BC built in. And 40-50-60-70 min less elevation than most, that

translates into about 2 sec less time of flight at 2 miles, and if all teams

have same expertise in wind spotting, those 2 can make difference.

And if you can hop up a bmg case necked to 375 with same high BC bullets

and speed it will not have as good of harmonics that can be done

within the 50 lb limit..Ed

 

[Deleted member 46119]

This is how guys become "boutique" action and firearms manufacturers.

They believe their idea has truth. So they go for it.

Well, GO FOR IT.

I'm with Ed. I haven't done much with the 50BMG. Only the 50DTC which works and works well for my intended purposes.

For the 2 Mile.. Physics, physics, physics.

One thing I have never seen discussed it the pressure before the bullet as it travels down the barrel.

We all know this pressure, it is a great deal of what makes muzzle brakes work. This pressure has an adverse effect on bullet velocity. Physics again, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

It's hard to beat these big 375's raw combination of speed and B.C. The only thing on the 50bmg bolt face that I think could run with these big 375's is Kirby Allen's 458 Allen Magnum and is 458 Maximus.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

It's hard to beat these big 375's raw combination of speed and B.C. The only thing on the 50bmg bolt face that I think could run with these big 375's is Kirby Allen's 458 Allen Magnum and is 458 Maximus.

I'm still looking at action options for the 416HSM (Hubel Super Magnum).

Not quite as big as a BMG sized action like 50BMG or 50DTC or 416 Barrett or 460 Styer. I have an ALS upper for those.

Ed has me some ideas. Gotta finish the 375 first. I have one machining project ahead of that.

 

[hubel458]

The Lawton, Stiller, MRC PH, big GMA, and at least half dozen more

will work for cases bigger in size like 9x85 MEN, Tyr case , and one we

are working on.Ed

 

[LR3]

I ve followed this with interest with the view of what s next after .375 based on Gibbs .505 case like AM Snipetac etc. I get 3300 fps with my AM but with pressure signs and it's great but out to 2miles less certain accuracy. I can hit 3" rocks at 2500 yds but range is 3520 yds for 2 miles. A few years ago Dave Viers started building me a .585 based 416 with the idea to get better BC of about 1.0 using CEB. The were some problems. Dave was making his own action, the .585 would sometimes hang fire (my .577 NE has not but my 505 has ...on a buffalo shot!), and then Dave stopped manufacturing for health reasons. So I d still be interested. Without getting into the 50BMG debate, Kirby did make a version but I understand the issue was accuracy? Now Dave did make a single shot light 20mm with a very long barrel that was accurate to 5km! how about necking that down somebody?

 

[ELR Researcher]

This is how guys become "boutique" action and firearms manufacturers.

They believe their idea has truth. So they go for it.

Well, GO FOR IT.
QUOTE]

LIKE

My prior post about not stepping back from .50 BMG-based cartridges and actions should have said ".50 BMG-based or larger." Again, again, "Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges." Beyond "going for it" with a cartridge design and/or action design, please note that the objective is shooting 2 miles (and, IMO, well beyond), NOT "...with the most efficient cartridge design". There are NO bonus points awarded for efficient designs. Take the cartridge out of the equation by building big enough and fast enough. Enough said.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

My prior post about not stepping back from .50 BMG-based cartridges and actions should have said ".50 BMG-based or larger." Again, again, "Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges." Beyond "going for it" with a cartridge design and/or action design, please note that the objective is shooting 2 miles (and, IMO, well beyond), NOT "...with the most efficient cartridge design". There are NO bonus points awarded for efficient designs. Take the cartridge out of the equation by building big enough and fast enough. Enough said.

We (you and I) are stuck with one parameter that others may not be. Though it is a realm of Federal Firearms Laws that I don't know.

We are limited to a maximum of 50 Caliber in California.

Oh and despite what all the California MoonPie sheep think, physics still applies in California.

I'm starting to see the limits of sectional density and surface drag. Many of us are heading toward mono metal projectiles. Yet everything in that world has a lighter density to surface area as well as frontal area (sectional density).

At the moment I don't have the resources to try some things I want to try but life is constant change.

 

[hubel458]

We are experimenting making long 416 HSM singleshot target case from

BMG brass. Longer slimmer than Steyr or 418 Barrett.

Using swage dies and little annealing and with my big press we are pushing

cases through dies base first. We don't anneal the head of the case just sides.

Got one with .720" base, rim .710". The base and inside radius at lower

corner plenty thick enough to machine down a little, cases lengthen a little,

Swage neck to hold 416 bullet. Cases can be 3.62" clear to 4" Long.

At 4" holds 280 gr ball powder under a bullet , would get 475 gr

416 bullet about 3700. Work in all the fat bolt actions, maybe work up to

production efficiencies to make them, got lots brass, strong primers.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left.
Can be 3.62" to 4.00" long, long one pictured.
Holds 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In pic
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4000 without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3700, perhaps the ultimate target, singleshot 416.. Ed

 

[hemiford]

What is the water volume of a typical 50bmg case, 290~~295 gr ?

 

[THEIS]

Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left.
Can be 3.62" to 4.00" long, long one pictured.
Holds 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In pic
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4000 without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3700, perhaps the ultimate target, singleshot 416.. Ed

Hello,

Can I purchase 2 pieces of 4 inch length necked down to 375 and 2 pieces of 4 inch length necked down to 338?

Also..the HSM acronym might be confusing to the industry if you have brass headstamped with it because HSM is already associated with ammunition industry as hunting shack munitions . You may have people thinking it's their design and brass instead of yours.

THEIS

 

[THEIS]

What is the water volume of a typical 50bmg case, 290~~295 gr ?

Hello,

Correct, somewhere around 292 is average.

THEIS

 

[hubel458]

That is capacity of our long 416 HSM also, but don't need BMG action

Won't ship brass out of the states anymore , I can't afford itar

and export license.

And it will be many months before I could get to necking down

further than 416, if ever, I'm 77, as besides necking die stems got to make

test guns or hydrodies to form that shoulder. And all our resources are going

into setting up fast machining and hydraulic processes to make 416 HSM,

(Hubel Super Magnum) and get a couple thousand ahead. As well as other

target cases we have already to kee making,

And the proportions for that case are not the

best for smaller than 416 bore, IE too fat.ED