Just for my hero Kirby

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by tbrown9124, May 23, 2009.

  1. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    ok i have a bit of a rant it seems all these bench racers on here cant pony up real advice, it seems you have always answered my questions unbiased and truthfully, the question is about the 7mm ultra mag and your 7mm AM, i would like to build a new ultra with a 28" tube to shoot the 168gr bergers or wildcats when or if they become available again this would be my muley/light game rifle, what velos should i expect with this weight bullet and and bbl length? it should be suitable for light deer muley and under to 900yds right? i know shot placement is critical at any range. ok for question #2 your 7mm mag and 200gr's in a similar 28" bbl gun what twist would i need for 200gr wildcats? what velo should i expect from that combo to i have seen some posts of yours but do not recall all that good info and i will go straight to the horse on his on stuff. any help would be appreciated, also do you have formed brass available for the allen mags? i know the 7 is based off a 338 lapua and is shortened, as you know when hunting out of country it helps greatly to have matching headstamps and bbl markings.
     
  2. CAM

    CAM Well-Known Member

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    ?? Why come to a web site and post a question to one person??
    Even if he is your "HERO"
    Thats what email and PM's are for!
    Or maybe you could just call him, just think you would be talking to your hero one on one.

    Anyways just seemed odd!
    Your missing out on lot's of info.
    good luck with your questions.

    Cam
     

  3. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    to cam obviously you dont know how hard it is to get him on the phone or that this is just about the fastest way to interact with kirby, but look at the ratios of people that actually respond to a thread and you will see what i am talking about, i have had good info passed on to me by others but when asking about something so specific as bullet velo from a mans line of cartridges wouldnt it be best to get the answers from that man himself? i have done this with jarrett,lazzeroni, and others so why does it seem odd to go right to the source?
     
  4. CAM

    CAM Well-Known Member

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    All good points I guess.
    just seems like an email would be more direct.
    I don't care what or who you post to, just seemed odd to me.
    When I'm extra busy I check my email but, don't surf the net.
    My mistake to assume other people are like me.
    Look on the bright side, I bumped your post!

    Take care
    Cam
     
  5. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    true i know what it is like to be super busy and do the same i have mailed him directly and it has taken a week or so and posted and it been a day or two, anyway i am sorry if you felt i was being defensive or snippy i know my direct and blunt nature makes me come off as an ass sometimes.
     
  6. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    That's kinda rude, If you want to ask someone in particular a question... fine. If you want to belittle the rest of the crowd, use a PM.
     
  7. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    OK, a couple answers, kinda

    I have one of kirbys 7mm AM's, It runs 200's at 3250-3300 fps, its a 9 twist 30" lilja and shoots them quite well from the limited testing I did the first year after I got the rifle.

    Now about the cases, the 7mm AM isn't a shortrened 338 LM, just necked down and imprroved.
    its much better, stronger brass than you can get in the RUM.

    you can form them yourself, or kirby can form them for you.

    Why are you wanting to use the 200 WC's for muley's to 900 yards? though they are great bullets, where they excel is on elk and deer beyond 1K.
    Personaly I shoot accubonds, 160's and have taken whitetails with them to 1350 yards, though my load is running out of steam fast at that range it still retains just under 1000 ft/lbs of energy at that range. I'm needing a new load and thinking about the 180 bergers but due to my daughters medical condition I've put most of my projects on hold until the funds allow it.
    So I'll be loaded with the accubonds again this fall and plan on taking the 20th deer with this rifle the first day or so of the 4rth season since it was built.

    the headstamp may say 338LM, but I firmly believe that if you get kirby to build you a 7mmAM, you'll be extremely pleased with the results you get. My 7mm AM is the most accurate, least temperamental rifle I've ever dealt with, it shoots anything very well. Hope this helps answer your ?'s.
    RR
     
  8. CAM

    CAM Well-Known Member

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    Hey we got a lot in common!! I think we would get along well.

    Sorry for high jacking your post.
    Cam
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    First off, the vast amount of experience and knowledge held by the members of this site should make you want to jump in head first with arms wide open and with both feet. I agree, it was a mistake to reference your questions simply toward me as there are MANY on here that have both 7mm RUMs and 7mm AMs built by me that can offer you a wide range of experience which is ALWAYS better then information from a single source.

    The experience on this site is tremendous even if it may not me like minded all the time, you would be very wise to take all the information offered by everyone as there are thousands on LRH that can offer you information and that is vastly superior to getting it from one source.

    Now to your question.

    The 7mm AM is a monster 7mm. As such, its velocity potential is such that it can be very hard on certain bullets and as such, special consideration must be taken to get good results from it. The main concern is with thin jacketed bullets because at the velocity the AM can drive them to, if they are rotated to quickly, they can come apart at worst and at best, accuracy can suffer.

    That is one of the main reasons that I recommend using bullets of at least 175 grains in the 7mm AM. I am not saying bullets lighter then that can not be used with great results but it raises some special considerations.

    Now if you shoot the 160 gr Accubond, drive it as fast as you want, you will not tear it apart, even at 3550 fps out of a 27" barrel length. The 168 gr Berger will also have similiar velocity potential which is why it becomes tricky. On average, in my test results, with a 1-9 twist barrel, the Berger bullets as well as the Wildcat bullets and any bullet based on the J-4 jacket or similiar thickness jackets will shoot very well up to around 3300 fps, much over that and accuracy drops off dramatically and you can even see some bullet failures in flight.

    This is why its designed around +175 gr bullets. THe 175 gr SMK has a relatively thick jacket and will allow the 7mm AM to rev up to its full velocity potential of around 3400-3450 fps with that bullet weight. A 200 gr Wildcat bullet will drop velocity level potential to some degree which is why it performs very well with the right barrel at around 3200-3300 fps depending on barrel length again.

    I never say that the 7mm AM is THE best 7mm on the planet because that is silly. There are more situations where the 7mm AM would not be the right chambering then where the 7mm AM is the correct choice. I talk more customers out of the 7mm AM chambering then recommend it.

    Generally, if someone came to me and said they wanted to shoot the 162-168 gr class VLD bullets at high velocity, I would first recommend the 7mm RUM over the AM. Why??

    Well, if you take a 168 gr VLD in a 7mm RUM and load it up to the rounds top velocity potential, you will be around 3200-3300 fps depending on barrel length, right at the top end of these bullets working range and they will perform very well.

    In the 7mm AM you would have to pull the throttle back to drop velocity back to the range where these specific bullets work best, sub 3300 fps. This can cause other probems, such as possible velocity spread increases and certainly increased carbon fouling.

    The trick is to get a chambering that will get you the velocity you want but do so in a working pressure range that will allow these big cases to function as cleanly as possible.

    So, if this is the bullet weight you want to use, I would recommend the 7mm RUM.

    If you wanted to shoot a bullet such as the 160 gr Accubond or 175 gr SMK or even the 180 gr Berger, the 7mm AM is a more viable choice. With the 200 gr ULD RBBT, there really is no better choice then the 7mm AM if your looking at shear performance.

    Twist rate. I have never built a 7mm AM designed to shoot the 168 gr Berger. If I were to, I would likely use a barrel with a twist rate of 1-10 or even possibly a 1-10.5 twist. The reason is because of the AMs velocity potential, you have to keep your RPMs down if you want to give the bullets the best chance to survive the launch.

    For the 200 gr ULD RBBT, the 1-9 twists work very well when loaded to top velocity. I have also tested 1-8.7 twists and they work very well. Anything faster then that is really not needed and becomes harder on bullets.

    With this level of performance, its a fine line but if you hit it right, special things can happen and we are figuring the 7mm AM out pretty well. I have had great results with the 180 gr Berger with slighly less then max loads but you have to stay on top of carbon fouling or it can be a problem.

    Back to my original point, thanks for your kind words but you would be much wiser to ask from the entire groups experience then one person. Not only will more be willing to offer you information but you will get a wider range of informaton and again, that is always more valuable then getting it from just one source.

    Just do not limit your resources that way next time.
     
  10. KQguy

    KQguy Well-Known Member

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    Since we are on the topic of the 7mmAM,what would barrel life be like on a monster like this.
     
  11. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    ok thanks for the input guys, as for the rum and am thing i like alot of steam behind long range bullets and dont care to push them right to their edge which is why i was looking toward the am for the 200's i was thinking within my comfort zone of 900yds i have shot animals and targets beyond this range, the places i hunt do not allow for much longer shots. as for singling one person out i have gotten good feed back from members here but i have also gotten some crap or just no one willing to share their experience or some that are unwilling to see the bad sides of their choice in whatever it may be rifle barrel bullets powder etc...... i have seen failures in my rifles and on hunts and like it when people point out the good but also point out the failure that they have had. i had a 243catbird once when it would shoot it shoot bugholes but it was finickier with what it liked to digest than a high strung cat, but all i ever heard was how great a hotrod 6 it was lesson learned, i have a 257stw not finicky but it is not the barn burner that it was made out to be either which is fine the velo and accuracy i get from it is great it doesnt care what bullet or load i feed it so long as it is 110gr or better always shoot moa and i couldnt ask for more with a 7lb rifle. all i am saying is that i dont like to be bullshitted and that i was looking for the intended maximums for this cartridge, if it is lethal to 1500yds on elk and moose i will feel all that more comfortable know the gun and cartridge are capable and that i can grow into it.
     
  12. esshup

    esshup Well-Known Member

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    Kirby is building me one and IIRC, he said 800-1000.