Jump!

[Boozer]

I have a rem 700 that I have been working on for quite a while. You can check some of my previous posts to see how much I have done. Literally everything short of a rebarrel, and now I wish that's where I had started.

My most recent venture was to start handloading. I've been reading up on handloading for nearly a year, and finally bought a hornady kit and was going to give it a go. I got to the point where I was trying to measure the seating depth. I actually came up with my own jig. It's similar in concept to the hornady system. Below is the picture of my first attempt. This is once fired brass that is at near zero headspace, and a Berger classic hunter. I repeated the test 3-4 times with different bullets each time. All bullets measured with reasonable tolerance to .308. This rifle has been used primarily as a hunting rifle, and has maybe seen 300 rounds in 10 years.

I have a factory remington round that I measured for reference, CBTO is 2.575, which let's assume is at least somewhat close to the rifling. It's hard to be exact, but my measurement is closer to 3.60. That's over an inch of jump! How is this even possible! Someone please tell me I'm losing my marbles.

 

[rcoody]

I have a rem 700 that I have been working on for quite a while. You can check some of my previous posts to see how much I have done. Literally everything short of a rebarrel, and now I wish that's where I had started.

My most recent venture was to start handloading. I've been reading up on handloading for nearly a year, and finally bought a hornady kit and was going to give it a go. I got to the point where I was trying to measure the seating depth. I actually came up with my own jig. It's similar in concept to the hornady system. Below is the picture of my first attempt. This is once fired brass that is at near zero headspace, and a Berger classic hunter. I repeated the test 3-4 times with different bullets each time. All bullets measured with reasonable tolerance to .308. This rifle has been used primarily as a hunting rifle, and has maybe seen 300 rounds in 10 years.

I have a factory remington round that I measured for reference, CBTO is 2.575, which let's assume is at least somewhat close to the rifling. It's hard to be exact, but my measurement is closer to 3.60. That's over an inch of jump! How is this even possible! Someone please tell me I'm losing my marbles.

You are losing your marbles! Now that factory ammo could easily be a tenth or more off the lands but not an inch. Are you using a bullet comparator on your calipers or are you measuring to the tip of the bullet.

checking the overall length of your rifles chamber can be done without the stoney point but it sure isn't easy. You have to have the brass tight to the shoulder it is headspacing off of. You have to be able to push the bullet up tight to the lands. And then you have to be able to get all this out of your chamber intact where you can measure it.

Old timey way is to seat a bullet long with light neck tension and chamber it. Let the lands push the bullet back in the brass. Problem with this method is usually the bullet sticks in the lands and pulls out of the case. Then you try it again pushing the bullet and case out with a cleaning rod. You have to do it several times and get the same measurement before having any confidence you are right

OALG is cheap and easy once you figure it out

 

[Boozer]

Maybe I should briefly explain how the tool works. The primer pocket is enlarged to 7/32, and the OD of the alum tube is 7/32, and is a snug fit. The flash hole is drilled out and tapped for 10-24 threads. The all thread fits perfectly inside the alum tube. You use the alum tube to push the case tight up in the chamber, and then screw in the all thread in, which pushes the bullet out until you feel the bullet contact the rifling. As I'm performing the test I am pushing on the aluminum tube, which keeps the case push snug against the shoulder in the chamber. I can (conveniently) see the base of the case through the small hole in the side of the action, and can tell when the threaded rod pushes the bullet into the lands and wants to start backing the case out of the action. Since then theads hold everything in position, there's little chance of anything getting thrown off as the assembly comes out. If there was any change it would be due to a slight rotation in the rod, and would change the measurement by maybe up to .010, but certainly not an inch.

Both the remington factory round and my seating depth round are being measured with a hornady bullet comparator gauge. Both measurements shown above are CBTO. I have scratched my head and repeated the test multiple times with the same results. I appreciate all, the feedback, and trust me, I HOPE I AM DOING THIS WRONG, but I just don't see how I could be...

 

[bob4]

That's a jump! Let's see a pic of both cartridges next to each other. Is this a 308 ? Naturally the factory round is shorter to fit any chamber.

 

[rcoody]

Are you telling me that the picture with the base of the bullet 1/2" out of the case is your OAL

That is impossible

are you sure that the caliber of bullets you are using are the same caliber of the barrel?

The dimensions you are coming up with are very close to 30-06. Is that a short or long action?

Even Roy Weatherby never made a jump that long

That rifle needs to go to the gun doctor

 

[Rack]

It looks 3006 in the picture to me.

 

[Boozer]

That's a jump! Let's see a pic of both cartridges next to each other. Is this a 308 ? Naturally the factory round is shorter to fit any chamber.

Sorry guys, I should have mentioned it before. It is a 30-06. I've attached a photo of the 2 next to one another for reference. The position of the seating tool is accurate, and I've laid a dial caliper in the photo for reference. I didn't actually measure anything with it, just spun it out and eyeballed where the ogives are to provide a scale and frame of reference.

As i stated in the original post. I've measured several of the bullets, and if anything, they are on the large side, but they are then ore the caliber, .308

 

[Mikecr]

It's a Remington, you've already exhausted more effort than it's worth.
Re-barrel it..

 

[rcoody]

Sorry guys, I should have mentioned it before. It is a 30-06. I've attached a photo of the 2 next to one another for reference. The position of the seating tool is accurate, and I've laid a dial caliper in the photo for reference. I didn't actually measure anything with it, just spun it out and eyeballed where the ogives are to provide a scale and frame of reference.

As i stated in the original post. I've measured several of the bullets, and if anything, they are on the large side, but they are then ore the caliber, .308

yep

new barrel. I sure would like to know the history of this one. Was it a factory barrel?

Now all you have to do is decide what caliber you want in your new rifle. Surely not another '06

 

[Rack]

Sorry guys, I should have mentioned it before. It is a 30-06. I've attached a photo of the 2 next to one another for reference. The position of the seating tool is accurate, and I've laid a dial caliper in the photo for reference. I didn't actually measure anything with it, just spun it out and eyeballed where the ogives are to provide a scale and frame of reference.

As i stated in the original post. I've measured several of the bullets, and if anything, they are on the large side, but they are then ore the caliber, .308

I think your doing something wrong. Are you sure you're getting the case all the way into the chamber for your measurements ? I use the Sinclair seating depth tool. You could google that read the instructions and see if that makes sense to you.

 

[bob4]

I think something is wrong in your measuring also. I'm not sure where a new barrel will fix your measuring issue. Although I wouldn't argue with folks more knowledgeable than I. ( And there are many) A picture of the Berger @ lands depth would of been better but I just can't see where there would be a 1 inch difference.
If you take your measurement that is 1 inch longer seat a bullet .010 shorter does it chamber easy ? Remington's are known for long throats.
Another thing you could do is take apart one of the factory rounds and see where that bullet touches the lands.

 

[Corey Schwanz]

Something doesn't sounds right. Either the tool or some measurements are way off or the rifle has some serious long throating in it and probably should be looked at by a gunsmith. Homemade tools are great and all, but Id get something like the Sinclair seating depth tool with a known track record of working well to see what results you get for depth. I just can't imagine the throat of the rifle is that long.

 

[OBXhunter]

That is a very cool and innovative die. Your results do not really pass the smell test though. I would recheck with a comparator and see if you get the same results

 

[MagnumManiac]

I am convinced that you ARE measuring incorrectly, if you take a fired case and put 2 thin (.039") splits opposite each other in the neck, neck size it, place a bullet in it long seated, chamber it and close and open the bolt a few times, then measure, it should give an accurate measurement. To get an average, do this several times. This is the method I use and prefer.
What diameter hole are you using to gauge the bullet ogive? It should be LESS than .308".
Even if you measure from base to tip, the bullets are seated off the ogive, if they aren't all the same in ogive dimension, the OAL will change by that amount.
Hope this helps.

Cheers.