Is this the right next step?

[Mram10us]

Ive been L/R hunting for about 50 years in the area of the country where it began. I can take you to many different camps within a few miles of ours where all they do is hunt L/R including names well known here. You wont be finding any scope levels and i doubt very much any wind meters either. What you will find is that (all) of them shoot from a bench of some type, and some myself included might use a small level when setting it up. Misses can be expected when shooting at an animal L/R especially where there are lots of trees having lots of branches. Problem with reading these post is that they are much to do about theory and little to do with actually doing it. Anybody who cant tell wether their reticle is canted or not maybe shouldn't be shooting that far.
We use a return to battery rest for our guns, which means you cant adjust the cant angle, so a level bench is more important for us. We sometimes just use a bipod also on the bench depending on the gun we use.
But otherwise a shooter should be able to straighten it out without a gadget attached to his scope he wont have time to look at anyway once the action starts.

I normally try to be very cordial, but there is a reason you expect misses. I don't talk about theory. I'm talking real life experience. Ask all the guys I hunt with and have shot with. A scope level/anti-can't device is priceless if setup correctly. And a guy CAN'T tell if the reticle is perfectly straight using trees, etc. They lean. And what if there is wind.
You might not use them, but you are dead wrong that there is no advantage or use. If you're around sw Idaho, I'll happily take you out and show you.

 

[yobuck]

I'm not talking about using trees or anything else, just looking thru the scope will be enough to tell. And yes it is theory wether you like it or not. Do any of the 1000 yd target shooters use them? Not any that I've seen do and I've seen quite a few. Best thing is just go shoot, and once you do you will begin to see what is needed and what isn't.

 

[Mram10us]

I'm not talking about using trees or anything else, just looking thru the scope will be enough to tell. And yes it is theory wether you like it or not. Do any of the 1000 yd target shooters use them? Not any that I've seen do and I've seen quite a few. Best thing is just go shoot, and once you do you will begin to see what is needed and what isn't.

You're hilarious. How on earth do you figure I, and others that use scope levels, don't shoot 1000yds+?? I shoot out to 1400 a lot. Probably have 500rds just from my 338 edge at 1000+. Not including my other rifles (I won't say how many in case my wife is reading this). Do what you want, but don't say things that aren't true for others to believe.

 

[sturner]

I spent 30 years building bridges so I deal with level and plumb every day spend a lot of time looking through a transit (old school transit ) they have to be level and plumb for a straight line same as a scope. Sorry I didn't put my blinker on just couldn't resist

 

[yobuck]

Not talking about shooting, I'm talking about hunting L/R.
And the problem is some don't realize there's a difference in the way things are as for conditions when and where much of it is done.
Shooting out to 1400 is one thing, but shooting out to any distance at a live animal is yet another. And frankly even hunting in different parts of the country can vary in that regard.
I would venture to say the places you shoot from are places you shoot from often, and are refined in such a way to help while you do it. Especially if you shoot while laying on the ground.
We do what we do in the part of the country we hunt because it works well for us there. And fact is everybody there does it that way because of that. If you and most others came to that area to hunt you would very quickly be asking to borrow a bench to shoot from for example in most of the areas we hunt.
If you think having a scope level is necessary for you to shoot well then so be it. But the absolute fact is that many others wont agree with you on that, and that should be o k also, and not an indication of their ignorance.
The owner of Cutting Edge Bullets has been hunting in Idaho for many years and has numerous trophy's hanging on the walls to show the success they have had there. Why don't you call him and ask how they hunt and shoot while they are there, and if it varies with how they hunt back home in PA.

 

[milo-2]

You're hilarious. How on earth do you figure I, and others that use scope levels, don't shoot 1000yds+?? I shoot out to 1400 a lot. Probably have 500rds just from my 338 edge at 1000+. Not including my other rifles (I won't say how many in case my wife is reading this). Do what you want, but don't say things that aren't true for others to believe.

I've shot around guys who refuse to use levels and they do just fine. At some point the level becomes a crutch. I used scope mount levels forever, do not today because I mostly use Kahles optics, and they are not level friendly IMO. Trust me, by not using one is it has not become a reason for missing a target. Now you just pay more attn to detail.
One funny thing is about levels, I've watched guys level their platform off a level, miss 3 times, notice it is no longer level from recoil, reset, guess what happens now. They are still correcting from the last 2 shots, never ends well.
You've been here a month averaging 18 posts a day, good job!

 

[yobuck]

I spent 30 years building bridges so I deal with level and plumb every day spend a lot of time looking through a transit (old school transit ) they have to be level and plumb for a straight line same as a scope. Sorry I didn't put my blinker on just couldn't resist

So did i Sturner, but buildings not bridges.
But your comparing apples and oranges at least to some degree.
But you have probably developed (an eye) for telling you if something isn't plumb. And that's what it takes when using a rifle scope also.
And you also know that if you place a perfectly square item on a level foundation, it will be both level and plumb.
Which is why leveling a bench is a good idea.
And fact also is that at the distances most l/r hunting shots are taken, a slight amount of scope cant don't matter very much.
If you miss the animal, it wont be because of the scope cant.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Yuppers,,, rocks,,, Old rotten tree roots and river bank shooting into clay banks to knock out the features...

The nice thing about clay bank shooting is the endless areas to plant those bullets...

I head out onto a sand bar to set-up and start picking things to shoot at,,, some times I guess the distances by eye sight,,, sometimes the range finder...

That way it gives me a chance to lean what these distances are...

And I never have to set up a target since they are all ready in place...

My task is to enjoy the day and hopefully learn something along the way...

Cheers from the North

 

[sturner]

Okay I will get back in my lane because the very last thing I want to do is confuse any one who is trying to get better at long range shooting
My blinker is back on!

 

[Mram10us]

Not talking about shooting, I'm talking about hunting L/R.
And the problem is some don't realize there's a difference in the way things are as for conditions when and where much of it is done.
Shooting out to 1400 is one thing, but shooting out to any distance at a live animal is yet another. And frankly even hunting in different parts of the country can vary in that regard.
I would venture to say the places you shoot from are places you shoot from often, and are refined in such a way to help while you do it. Especially if you shoot while laying on the ground.
We do what we do in the part of the country we hunt because it works well for us there. And fact is everybody there does it that way because of that. If you and most others came to that area to hunt you would very quickly be asking to borrow a bench to shoot from for example in most of the areas we hunt.
If you think having a scope level is necessary for you to shoot well then so be it. But the absolute fact is that many others wont agree with you on that, and that should be o k also, and not an indication of their ignorance.
The owner of Cutting Edge Bullets has been hunting in Idaho for many years and has numerous trophy's hanging on the walls to show the success they have had there. Why don't you call him and ask how they hunt and shoot while they are there, and if it varies with how they hunt back home in PA.

I don't care how you hunt because that is up to you. When you state things that aren't factual ("scope levels don't help","I can level a scope without a level") it confuses people then I have to read somebody repeating it. I know guys with 30-30s that kill trophys in idaho. Heck, I know muzzleloader guys that shoot trophies here, but that doeant mean you can LR hunt without knowing if you are level. I'd do the math but I'm too tired. Just consider the extra horizontal AND vertical error you get when you introduce cant. As for shooting from known places, of course I practice from the same areas, but I hunt all over and shoot from ridges, sidehills, whatever gets the job done and know for a fact that you cannot remove the cant from a scope without a way to measure it.

 

[Mram10us]

I've shot around guys who refuse to use levels and they do just fine. At some point the level becomes a crutch. I used scope mount levels forever, do not today because I mostly use Kahles optics, and they are not level friendly IMO. Trust me, by not using one is it has not become a reason for missing a target. Now you just pay more attn to detail.
One funny thing is about levels, I've watched guys level their platform off a level, miss 3 times, notice it is no longer level from recoil, reset, guess what happens now. They are still correcting from the last 2 shots, never ends well.
You've been here a month averaging 18 posts a day, good job!

If you cannot install a scope level properly, then you should really have someone check your scope rings and bases too. Crutch?? Is your scope a crutch? Is your bipod a crutch? They are all aids to help us reach out further. When I am in doubt of anything, I revert to math and physics. No bias here because I want to shoot better, not just try to be right about things. As for my post count, this is my passion and I better start spending more time with my wife and dogs

 

[milo-2]

If you cannot install a scope level properly, then you should really have someone check your scope rings and bases too. Crutch?? Is your scope a crutch? Is your bipod a crutch? They are all aids to help us reach out further. When I am in doubt of anything, I revert to math and physics. No bias here because I want to shoot better, not just try to be right about things. As for my post count, this is my passion and I better start spending more time with my wife and dogs

I never had issues installing a level, my neighbors window shutters are level. All my actions have integral bases, no issue there. I use NF ultralites on Kahles scopes, ARC rings on NF scopes, not sure how I can screw that up either. Or you were going off what I said about Kahles being non friendly? It has more to do the size of turret housing and turret itself, new 525i's more compact, no room in front of the eyebox and the brand that visually clears is the turret is Burris. I am not a fan of scope base mounted levels.

A bipod or a scope could be considered necessity, a level, not so much. I'm rocking w/o one and doing fine. I used to only shoot if I had a spotter, today I don't really like someone calling my shots.
If you feel you need one, by all means utilize one, it surely cannot hurt. But don't tell someone they cannot remove cant w/o one. Because people prove you wrong daily.

 

[Mram10us]

I never had issues installing a level, my neighbors window shutters are level. All my actions have integral bases, no issue there. I use NF ultralites on Kahles scopes, ARC rings on NF scopes, not sure how I can screw that up either. Or you were going off what I said about Kahles being non friendly? It has more to do the size of turret housing and turret itself, new 525i's more compact, no room in front of the eyebox and the brand that visually clears is the turret is Burris. I am not a fan of scope base mounted levels.

A bipod or a scope could be considered necessity, a level, not so much. I'm rocking w/o one and doing fine. I used to only shoot if I had a spotter, today I don't really like someone calling my shots.
If you feel you need one, by all means utilize one, it surely cannot hurt. But don't tell someone they cannot remove cant w/o one. Because people prove you wrong daily.

Where I disagree is you have no way of measuring cant. I've done a lot of construction and flying that require leveling. I wouldn't fly without a way to verify my wings are level because sometimes the environment around you tricks you. As for the mounting comment, you mentioned people's levels getting out of whack by recoil, etc.

 

[milo-2]

Where I disagree is you have no way of measuring cant. I've done a lot of construction and flying that require leveling. I wouldn't fly without a way to verify my wings are level because sometimes the environment around you tricks you. As for the mounting comment, you mentioned people's levels getting out of whack by recoil, etc.

No, I said their rifles-systems become unlevel from recoil, levels coming lose or getting out of whack was not mentioned.