Intersting find in my elk..

[Mr. Magoo]

Most accurate statement in the hole thread. All speculation here.
I've killed a pile of elk, both cows and bulls, with 6.5's. Never had one get away. Only shot one twice, didn't need it but he took a couple wobbly steps and stopped so he got another one.

Same here with a .270 win and 130s, its been a killing machine. I do hear disparaging remarks about that round, and I do think there's a bit of merit in them, but obviuously as you pointed out it has as much to do with the guy behind the gun as the gun itself. I am after quality meat, not just a kill, so only ever take super solid shots within my capabilities.

So all that said, I'll be more comfortable taking longer shots with a little more horsepower and a good bullet since along with the distance comes a little more uncertainty- so if I smack the thick part of the shoulder quartering to there's less worry about getting through to the light switch.
Nothing wrong with being over gunned.

I'm thinking 300 prc since I've seen plenty of quality brass available. I like the big 30s- had a 300 mag for a short time and it really was a wonderful shooting gun and not nearly as bad of recoil as I expected for a mountain rifle.

 

[isaaccarlson]

I shot a whitetail a couple years ago with a crossbow. Back edge of the shoulder. She jumped straight up, landed, looked around, wagged her tail, and walked off with two full streams of bright red blood pouring out of her. It was like a red two lane highway. I have never seen blood pour out of anything like that in my life. I knew she was dead. She walked about 30 yards and tipped over against some brush. We waited another 45 minutes for another deer, but nothing came in so we went to get the doe. We got close and she jumped up and make it 20 yards into the woods and crashed again. We waited an hour and jumped her again. I went back early in the morning and tracked her through 5 more beds over a 1/3 mile before losing the trail when she got on a path with other deer. She showed up a few days later with a nice mark where the arrow went through and acted like nothing happened. Best I can figure is the arrow was a little dull (it was my friend's crossbow) and the body sensed trauma and released clotting hormone. She went down and had barely any blood left, but was able to clot and make some more blood before we jumped her. Then again, and then she had all night to heal and recover some strength. If we had grabbed her when she first went down, we would have found a barely beating heart when we gutted her and she would have died during that process. It was weird and I am glad we didn't get to gut her alive. It would have ruined it for me. Critters are tougher than we think.

 

[crkckr]

Every time this subject comes up there are always lots of opinions tossed around (including mine) and stories of people who shoot some pretty small calibers to take elk. There are plenty of stories of Indians killing elk with .22lr back in the 20's & 30's and I wouldn't doubt someone has bashed one over the head with a rock enough times to kill it (wouldn't that be a ride!).

It *always* comes down to shot placement is #1 and caliber a distant #2. My Uncle was my hunting mentor and he hunted elk with a 6mm and 95 gr. Partitions. He also had the skills to sneak up and shoot them while they were sleeping in their beds. A loud noise and they woke up dead. I used to be pretty sneaky but was never that good! At age 70, the only thing
I sneak up on these days is whatever the wife fixed for dinner!

One thing I can guarantee is that there will never be an end to this discussion! If you use a 22-250 and have the skill and ethics to do it right, more power to you. If you can't shoot your 500 Wizzbang worth beans and lob shots at anything that moves in the woods, do everyone a favor and park your butt in front of a nice lodge fire and tell tall tales over a cocktail and leave the hunting to the rest of us!

I picked the .338 WM and learned to shoot it because I'm a personal friend of Mr. Murphy and I want to be able to take a quartering shot at 4 or 500 yards and know that my bullet will still very likely go all the way through even a big, tough bull and that he's not going to go very far afterwards. I've never worried about ruining some meat as long as my target goes down hard.

As long as you have the real confidence to take a shot (not "hope") that will cleanly kill your target, we'll get along just fine!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[mnoland30]

It isn't weight that ensures penetration, it is sectional density (SD). I agree that 180 gr. is the lightest cup and core bullet that should be used on bull elk if you're shooting .308 caliber. That gives a SD of .271. I shoot 7mm 168 Berger VLDs (SD of .298). The longest shot on a bull was 340 yds. The bull took a few steps and died. One reason the 6.5 does so well for its size is that with a 140 gr. bullet the SD is .287.

It is important to match the bullet to velocity. A mono bullet is great because it won't blow up and over expand at high velocity. I shot a javelina with a 10" Contender pistol with a 120 gr. bullet from a 7mm TCU (2000 fps). The bullet penciled through and the javelina kept walking. It wasn't enough velocity to expand it. With a different bullet, I've dropped multiple pigs in their tracks. I've shot 4 aoudad (supposed to be hard to kill) with a 7-30 Waters (2400 fps) with 120 TTSX Barnes bullets. All dropped in their tracks. A friend shot 3 oryx with his 30-06 and 150 gr. Core Lokt bullets and couldn't recover any of them. He gave up in disgust and went home. I told him to get 180 gr. bullets, and he recovered the next oryx he shot.

I go with high SD on my muzzleloader too. A .458 405 gr. bullet (SD .276) drops them as well.

As for heart shots, I hit a Coues deer in the heart with my .270 and he ran 75 yards. I hit a cow elk in the heart with a 400 gr. .45 muzzleloader bullet and she ran 75 yards. I like them to drop. A shoulder shot does that, but a 400 gr. pure lead muzzleloader bullet on the point of a cow's shoulder cracked the ball joint and split in two. Luckily, 1/2 went into the neck, and 1/2 into the lungs.

 

[lyle2231]

I find it interesting that no posts mention the estimated distance and how many minutes of elevation they had to put on the scope before firing, example zero at 100yds , come up to 600 yds 11 to 14 minutes depending upon speed of bullets. Knowing your zeros would help in shot placement. Just my 2c
All the best friends!

 

[Upsidedownjack]

Bro and I had a really nice round of luck this year and we managed to nail a couple big bodied bulls on our ranch. It was nice to be able to use my tractor to hang it while skinning and breaking it down.

While separating the left shoulder from the body I found what was left of a 6.5mm bullet embedded in the rib cage just under the shoulder blade on the near side ..I.E. it only penetrated about 2" into the animal. The bullet weighed 75 grains and there were no other bullet fragments in the area.



There was no entry wound left in either the hide or shoulder meat, so this was obviously long enough ago that it had conpletely healed. No scar tissue, blood shot meat or any other sign of damage. Just a bullet sitting in perfect meat.

All the evidence points to this being a pass-through from another animal, since it was highly mushroomed with only 2" of penetration and no bullet fragments. Whatever brand of bullet it was, was very lightly constructed and hit with alot of velocity. I'm not used to seeing this much lead peeled off the core from what had to have been a pure lung shot.

Fyi I shoot a .270win and I'm of the opinion that its a bit too light for elk so I wouldn't shoot a 6.5 at elk unless that's all I had. Of course I've been hankering to get a new rifle so I'll use this a justification my that I need to step up in caliber

Couple questions:
1) What bullets are this lightly constructed?
I would not want this much frangibility for a few reasons. My thinking is that this bullet probably wouldnt hold up to any kind of bone hit, but I may be wrong. The other reason, (though we always understand this is always a risk) is over penetration leading to what happened to my elk.

2) do you prefer pass through or, bullet expending all of its energy in the animal for quickest stoppage of elk function?

Feel free to discuss bullet failures.View attachment 409062View attachment 409063

I hunted with a 270 win for years using the 150 gr. Nosler BT. Loaded at somewhat Simi hot. Shot a very nice Bull Elk at some 175 yds. Standing sideways! First shot, Left shoulder, also the #2, #3, #4 shot!! Never even flinched! Did have a Pardner spotting and confirming all shots! Tracked for some 4 hrs, and lost over some rocks! Was sick! The Next year, 300 Win Mag. Shot a BUNCH more elk over the next years and using 180 gr spbt and have dropped everyone with one shot. Almost with none taking another step! Rem brass, LRM primer H1000 at 79.5 gr with the SpBt My load! Not Yours! Be careful reloading anything! Good hunting! Longest kill? Aprox800 yds! Again, 1 shot, 1kill!

 

[meatyrem]

Bro and I had a really nice round of luck this year and we managed to nail a couple big bodied bulls on our ranch. It was nice to be able to use my tractor to hang it while skinning and breaking it down.

While separating the left shoulder from the body I found what was left of a 6.5mm bullet embedded in the rib cage just under the shoulder blade on the near side ..I.E. it only penetrated about 2" into the animal. The bullet weighed 75 grains and there were no other bullet fragments in the area.



There was no entry wound left in either the hide or shoulder meat, so this was obviously long enough ago that it had conpletely healed. No scar tissue, blood shot meat or any other sign of damage. Just a bullet sitting in perfect meat.

All the evidence points to this being a pass-through from another animal, since it was highly mushroomed with only 2" of penetration and no bullet fragments. Whatever brand of bullet it was, was very lightly constructed and hit with alot of velocity. I'm not used to seeing this much lead peeled off the core from what had to have been a pure lung shot.

Fyi I shoot a .270win and I'm of the opinion that its a bit too light for elk so I wouldn't shoot a 6.5 at elk unless that's all I had. Of course I've been hankering to get a new rifle so I'll use this a justification my that I need to step up in caliber

Couple questions:
1) What bullets are this lightly constructed?
I would not want this much frangibility for a few reasons. My thinking is that this bullet probably wouldnt hold up to any kind of bone hit, but I may be wrong. The other reason, (though we always understand this is always a risk) is over penetration leading to what happened to my elk.

2) do you prefer pass through or, bullet expending all of its energy in the animal for quickest stoppage of elk function?

Feel free to discuss bullet failures.View attachment 409062View attachment 409063

My bet is it's from someone that uses a 6.5 Needmoor that is totally confident it's an elk rifle at long range. sheesh.

 

[meatyrem]

I seriously doubt it was a pass through, I've personally helped a friend track down a 6x6 that he hit in the shoulder with a 6.5 creed at 275 yards. The recovered 143 eldx bullet penetrated 3" and looked the same, lucky for him he got a second round in the guts as the bull was running off and it clipped his liver.
I have a handful of friends who've found small caliber bullets healed into front and hind quarters

Which is what I think 6.5 fired from too long off only penetrated that little.

 

[meatyrem]

My two Pennie's, for what it's worth, a great parameter is that 180 grains and 3000 FPS should be regarded as a good barrier to entry when bull elk are concerned. Cow calf are surely not as "tough" but to break shoulders and take the life out of a mature bull we should be sure we have the energy delivered to take one of the absolute toughest species we have in the states.. so I would say tougher than those species, not bigger than Nilgi though…

Nothing wrong with using more than enough gun. Unless the user can't handle it.

 

[lyle2231]

Just being curious again….. any body try head shots?

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I find it interesting that no posts mention the estimated distance and how many minutes of elevation they had to put on the scope before firing, example zero at 100yds , come up to 600 yds 11 to 14 minutes depending upon speed of bullets. Knowing your zeros would help in shot placement. Just my 2c
All the best friends!

Probably 30 years ago I taped a drop table to the stock out to 500 which was my personal limit that I found after alot of practicing and verification of actual bullet drops at distance. Its still there though it's all memorized now. I also used to do (fairly unsophisticated, I'll grant you) bullet performance tests at those ranges since I don't like to practice on game animals.

I think every respnsible hunter should know their rifle/ load intimately.

I'm sure thats why my dad could shoot so well without thinking about it since he'd been shooting the same load for 50 years.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Just being curious again….. any body try head shots?

My dad used to shoot them just behind the ear if the opportunity presented itself and he was close enough.
I saw him nail a deer behind the ear mid bound at about 50 yards. Shot it like a shotgun. Said he aimed for the tip of the nose and just followed through. He taught marksmanship in the army with a garand.

 

[crkckr]

If I can get close enough (usually at or under 100 yards) and if conditions permit, such as no strong winds and the animals are relaxed and not twitchy (preferable grazing), and if I can get into my usual position of flat on the ground off a bipod, I will take a head shot. But head shots can be a low percentage shot if you can't place the bullet perfectly and the chances of creating a "fatal later" wound can be high if conditions aren't perfect. When the conditions are right I love head shots as they are instantly fatal and while they may kick up a fuss, they are dead and the lights are off! I've never had to follow after a head shot critter and of course, you don't ruin any meat! I like to place the bullet just behind the ear and destroy as much of the brain and brain stem as possible.

However, if the animals are nervous, alert and moving their heads around a lot, there's a big angle to deal with or strong winds - and if there's no cover with which I can get close, head shots are off the table. There's always the possibility of snapping off an antler as well, so if you're after a wall mount, head shots are not advised.
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[trhall]

Bro and I had a really nice round of luck this year and we managed to nail a couple big bodied bulls on our ranch. It was nice to be able to use my tractor to hang it while skinning and breaking it down.

While separating the left shoulder from the body I found what was left of a 6.5mm bullet embedded in the rib cage just under the shoulder blade on the near side ..I.E. it only penetrated about 2" into the animal. The bullet weighed 75 grains and there were no other bullet fragments in the area.



There was no entry wound left in either the hide or shoulder meat, so this was obviously long enough ago that it had conpletely healed. No scar tissue, blood shot meat or any other sign of damage. Just a bullet sitting in perfect meat.

All the evidence points to this being a pass-through from another animal, since it was highly mushroomed with only 2" of penetration and no bullet fragments. Whatever brand of bullet it was, was very lightly constructed and hit with alot of velocity. I'm not used to seeing this much lead peeled off the core from what had to have been a pure lung shot.

Fyi I shoot a .270win and I'm of the opinion that its a bit too light for elk so I wouldn't shoot a 6.5 at elk unless that's all I had. Of course I've been hankering to get a new rifle so I'll use this a justification my that I need to step up in caliber

Couple questions:
1) What bullets are this lightly constructed?
I would not want this much frangibility for a few reasons. My thinking is that this bullet probably wouldnt hold up to any kind of bone hit, but I may be wrong. The other reason, (though we always understand this is always a risk) is over penetration leading to what happened to my elk.

2) do you prefer pass through or, bullet expending all of its energy in the animal for quickest stoppage of elk function?

Feel free to discuss bullet failures.View attachment 409062View attachment 409063

That looks very much like the remains of Berger bullets I have recovered from game.