Interesting article on bear spray vs. bear handgun defense

dogz said:
And or for the person who is self aware enough to understand that they're not handgun capable. Let alone cool enough to get it done with a handgun.

I get all the jokes and such regarding bear spray, but real world I'd bet that for all but those that practice a ton load with a handgun (especially from draw to fire and be able to hit CNS in under 1 second to 1.5 seconds on a fast moving and advancing target). I'd also bet that not more than 5 guys in 100 are capable of doing such a thing.........

But, I could be wrong! Have been so many times before in my life.

Bear threads are a hoot, it brings out all kinds of thoughts from all levels of experience and as always a lot of comments from those who just don't spend much if any time in G bear territory.

Flame away boys and girls...
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I'd like to believe that i'm one,but the odds are not in your favor henceforth the 12ga,I know that I can give him 10, 000 buck in the noggin and finish with a slug,but my distinct advantage is the dog,no bear would ever close within 50 yards that I wouldn't have the drop on.
 
1st choice... Rather never get mauled or kilt by a bear.
2nd choice... If I get mauled or kilt by a bear, much prefer going through that experience with a big bore revolver in my hands, than an emptied / dispensed can of pepper spray.
 
If a CNS was necessary to stop a bear attack then why are firearms effective 98% of the time when deployed. I am certain that all of those successful bear stops were not CNS hits. Unless you have been down range of a gunshot at close range then it is hard to imagine the effect it has on man or beast. The noise and concussion is dehabilitating to say the least. This is enough in and of its self to stop a bear even momentary. Every year bow hunters stop grizzly attacks with handguns in Montana. Either the bear goes off to die or the hunter missed or had a nonfatal hit. Very few have fallen at the shot, at the hunters feet. Yet the bear stopped the attack and left the scene if it was able.
Carry your side arm when out in Grizzly Country and enjoy your time outdoors. You do not have to be a expert with a handgun to successfully protect yourself and you don't need a hand cannon either. Don't waste your money on bear spray it simply doesn't deter grizzly's. It was designed to get you killed and not the Grizzly. The few times that bear spray was touted as successful was a bluff charge in which the grizzly only wanted to scare you away. They do it quite often.

I see a lot of fear mongering and arm chair experts in this thread and not much experience in griz country. There will always be those incidents where nothing is going to save you. We had one 2 years ago near me. A healthy 44 year old man practically stepped on a grizzly and it killed him in self defense. However most times you will have enough notice to draw your weapon. If the fact that apex predators are in the woods bothers you then stay home. If not then go about your adventure in the outdoors and have fun because the chances of you encountering a grizzly are really slim much less a grizzly that wants to attack you.
 
sedancowboy said:
If a CNS was necessary to stop a bear attack then why are firearms effective 98% of the time when deployed. I am certain that all of those successful bear stops were not CNS hits. Unless you have been down range of a gunshot at close range then it is hard to imagine the effect it has on man or beast. The noise and concussion is dehabilitating to say the least. This is enough in and of its self to stop a bear even momentary. Every year bow hunters stop grizzly attacks with handguns in Montana. Either the bear goes off to die or the hunter missed or had a nonfatal hit. Very few have fallen at the shot, at the hunters feet. Yet the bear stopped the attack and left the scene if it was able.
Carry your side arm when out in Grizzly Country and enjoy your time outdoors. You do not have to be a expert with a handgun to successfully protect yourself and you don't need a hand cannon either. Don't waste your money on bear spray it simply doesn't deter grizzly's. It was designed to get you killed and not the Grizzly. The few times that bear spray was touted as successful was a bluff charge in which the grizzly only wanted to scare you away. They do it quite often.
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I don't believe anything fired from the hand qualifies as a "bear stopper", and not much fired from the shoulder-absent CNS hits.

In term of handgun choice pick what suits your circumstances.
 
Not to bicker...

But... I once fired a high powered rifle bullet within 12" of a threatening grizzly bear's ear from ~30yds distance in an effort to scare it away. He never even blinked. Just continued looking at me like I owed him money. It was as if I'd not fired the shot.

Bears come in all different flavors, and encounters occur under numerous different circumstances. I never expect, or depend on, warning shots to deter a bear. Some will turn and leave. Some, defending a carcass or cubs, will charge the moment a warning shot is fired.

One example: An aquaintence fired a warning shot over the head of large boar brown bear from ~35yds that was defending a winter-kill moose carcass early one spring on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula. The warning shot prompted an instant full-bore charge. He had time for one more shot before the bear flattened him, then crunched his face in his jaws. Only thing saved his life was a 44 Mag revolver in his chest holster. The bear's canines didn't penetrate his brain so he remained fully conscious. Was able to draw and empty the revolver into the underside of the bear by feel, while his face was inside the bear's jaws. He said the bear became still during the firing of the revolver, and a few seconds after the revolver was emptied. Then the bear released his head and walked away. He'd buried the revolver's muzzle into the fur on the underside of the bear. So in addition to the bullets, muzzle gases likely blew up into the bear's torso too. Didn't have the nerve to ask if he would fire another warning shot in a similar scenario...

Based on my experiences and those of other hunters I've talked with, if a bear is aware of my presence, isn't backing down, and is close enough to limit my response time, I fire no warning shots. Brown bear, grizzly bear, or black bear. A lot easier to take out a stationary bear than a charging bear.

Some black bears in the remote wilds of Alaska that rarely encounter people, pose a much greater threat than the average black bear living in populated areas in the States, IMO. They haven't learned to fear people, and the greater threat is from predatory stalk/attack. I experienced a predatory stalk by one such black bear about 20 years ago. He came in directly downwind of me, following my scent trail. Fortunately I was black bear hunting on an Alaskan mountainside at the time. He came into view at ~50 feet, eyes locked onto mine. Continued staring me down as he approached closer. At 20 feet he turned broadside to intimidate and show me how big he was. Shot and killed him at 20 feet, while he was broadside posturing. Mulling over the experience shortly after firing the kill shot, one conclusion was... that wilderness area just became one bear safer. And I couldn't have accomplished that with a can of bear spray.
 
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Mark37082 said:
The articles were an interesting read. Since you cannot carry a side arm in National Parks, bear spray probably is your best option when there. Surprising a grizzly sow with cubs on a hike in a NP is a recipe for disaster. Also, encountering an aggressive bear looking for a meal is probably not going to end well. Such is the risk of hiking in bear country. There would be no question in my mind on what I would be carrying if hunting where firearms are allowed. It would not be a can of bear spray.
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Firearms in National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

Details about the carry and use of Firearms in National Parks.
www.nps.gov www.nps.gov

Legal to carry in National Parks since 2010. Thanks to President Bush.

Lots of folks around here carry in Yellowstone National Park.
 
sedancowboy said:
If a CNS was necessary to stop a bear attack then why are firearms effective 98% of the time when deployed. I am certain that all of those successful bear stops were not CNS hits. Unless you have been down range of a gunshot at close range then it is hard to imagine the effect it has on man or beast. The noise and concussion is dehabilitating to say the least. This is enough in and of its self to stop a bear even momentary. Every year bow hunters stop grizzly attacks with handguns in Montana. Either the bear goes off to die or the hunter missed or had a nonfatal hit. Very few have fallen at the shot, at the hunters feet. Yet the bear stopped the attack and left the scene if it was able.
Carry your side arm when out in Grizzly Country and enjoy your time outdoors. You do not have to be a expert with a handgun to successfully protect yourself and you don't need a hand cannon either. Don't waste your money on bear spray it simply doesn't deter grizzly's. It was designed to get you killed and not the Grizzly. The few times that bear spray was touted as successful was a bluff charge in which the grizzly only wanted to scare you away. They do it quite often.

I see a lot of fear mongering and arm chair experts in this thread and not much experience in griz country. There will always be those incidents where nothing is going to save you. We had one 2 years ago near me. A healthy 44 year old man practically stepped on a grizzly and it killed him in self defense. However most times you will have enough notice to draw your weapon. If the fact that apex predators are in the woods bothers you then stay home. If not then go about your adventure in the outdoors and have fun because the chances of you encountering a grizzly are really slim much less a grizzly that wants to attack you.
Click to expand...
Grizzlies behave differently than black bear. Black bears will usually go away if you hurt them. Grizzlies not so much - they have instincts that lead them to attack and kill if you stumble on their food cache. Both continue to death if in predatory attack mode. Surprisw encounters can go either way, with grizzly more likely to make contact. Sows with cubs don't alway attack, depending on what the cubs do. A handgun is much better than nothing, by all means use it if necessary and hope for the best. Try for CNS. Use a chest holster and a lanyard.

Everyone attacked by a grizzly is uninterested in the odds of encountering one.
 
I'm not offering to test this but I'm told that a fairly hot load for a 10mm Glock works well on bears, well, actually it's at the upper end and not a published load, hotter than I like to shoot. You have to up the spring in the slide to 24# and because the bullet is a hard cast coated lead 220 gr bullet you need to swap barrels (both easy to do). There's not much that's worse (current President excepted, actually, make that politicians) than I heard or I was told on the internet but I've loaded and shot them (at steel plates... they didn't attack... I attacked them) so at least there's that.
 

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