HS Precision quality control (revisited)

[Guest]

Jerry--
It's getting deep in here--This guy is actually saying its GOOD to bend your trued action...Now I've heard it all. This is exactly the reason I haven't been here lately. Since Len ran off all the old heads over "personality issues", we've been over run by a bunch of idiots.

 

[Mysticplayer]

Jon and John, the actions were indeed bending. You could feel and see it when the front screw was tightened and loosened. The last one needed the bedding to be raised 1/8" for a stress free fit.ie action did not move when the action screws were tightened. That's alot of gap for an action or stock to accomodate.

I don't deny that the stock still "works". However, I believe in stress free bedding for more consistent shooting and to eliminate any long term wear problems in the bolt, lugs, receiver. Besides, if the bedding was that sloppy (action could move forwards and back 1/4" and rotate slightly too), just use the orig factory stock for a better fit. I also don't believe in using the action screws as load bearing to hold an action inplace.

Jerry

 

[4ked Horn]

[ 07-28-2004: Message edited by: 4ked Horn ]

 

[Ian M]

Guys,
Before this gets going any more, and I have to try to nuke it - which could disrupt the entire internet or worse, let's stay with Long Range Hunting.

Personally, I think Chris was just "having a day", he is usually one of the most interesting and courteous guys that I like to read on this site.

As for the HS rifle, SCL nailed it - they shoot great so why not just pull the trigger and grin. Sure, some guys like to split hairs, then split the splits - but not everyone gets off on such micro-managing stuff.

Let's lighten up a bit, guys, I hate to wield my nuking power

 

[Dave in Idaho]

EXPRESS,
I agree. If I spent $3,400 on a rifle(tactical or not) I would expect it to exhibit a certain amount of craftmanship and better fit and finish than you describe. I have rifles that look like crap but can shoot in the .3's but I wouldn't think of selling them to someone for that kind of money and say,"Well she shoots! So shut up and enjoy!" And if any of you guys still think that, let me know I'll make you a heckuva deal on a couple crappy lookin' unbelievably accurate sticks! I will even beat 'em up a little more if you like. No extra charge.
I would continue to go up the line with HS until you get someone who may be able to help. E mail them photos and explain your disappointment in the appearance of it. Remember eveyone has a boss.
Final Thought: You wouldn't buy a Porsche 911 for top dollar and settle for a dent or scratch? Imagine the salesperson saying, "It goes 140mph so shut up about the crack in the winshield already!"
Hope you get some satisfaction.
Dave in Idaho

 

[nmhunternmhunter]

I am new to this board, My long range shooting is with LRP's (Long Range Pistols).
I have several HS Pistols ranging from 22-250 to 308 win. I have not experienced any problems with the quality or performance of any of them. In fact at the range I used to shoot at in NM there were not many long guns that could compete against them. HS guaranteed .5 MOA and after fine tuning the loads they all will clover leaf 5 shot rounds at 100 yds. As far as hunting with them I used the 308 last year to take an Oryx in NM at 232yds with no problems. I know 200-300 yds with a long gun might not be considered long range but with a hand held it is a different story. Really enjoy reading all of the posts here, have been a long range fanatic for years (used to shoot long guns but Open heart surgery 2 years ago got me into the LRP's)and I haven't looked back. Like the HS's so much just ordered a 300 WSM and a 270 WSM in the LRP's.
nmhunter

 

[Aussie]

Dave ,
Well said . Plenty of us out here who like to look at our guns and admire good workmanship . For $3400 you can build a rifle that shoots and looks good .

 

[SCL]

Gents,
I think some folks here are missing the fact that the rifle was $3400 due to a foreign purchase exchange rates - the HSP rifles are $2200 -$2500 unless its a takedown model if you are buying it in the good ol' USA.

Second - does HS advertise that you will be amazed by the fit and finish of parts you cannot see? Nope. Do they guarantee accuracy and performance? Yep.

If you want a truly custom rilfe that performs at the same level of the HSP's than you are looking at the $3K ballpark for a GAP Rock, Robar SR60/SR90, TBA M40 series, etc. Their stock internals probably look better than an HS, but these sticks cost several hundred dollars more. HSP can build a rifle that performs equally for far less because they are not wasting lots of man hours of making things that you won't normally see look pretty. That said, the HSP guns perform better than guaranteed in my experience.

I think the lesson here is that if you are in Europe you should use European sticks - for $3400 USD you could have purchased an AI, Sako TRG, or Kepplinger rifle for less than an HS Precision.

SCL

 

[SCL]

Dave in Idaho,
Your Porsche analogy does not apply because a windshield crack is an immediately apparent blemish on the exterior. I think a better analogy would be that one of the pistons does not match the color of the other pistons in the engine, but the Porsche still goes 140+ MPH. Are you buying a porsche because it should have matching piston colors, or because you want to go 140 MPH?

See the difference?

SCL

 

[SCL]

Pistons...or is it cylinders in a porsche?? Aw...who the hell cares you still get the idea and I never claimed to be any kind of auto mechanic - particularly on foreign cars

SCL

 

[Dave in Idaho]

SCL,
The comment regarding foriegn exchange rate is meaningless. What I get to pay for it because I am in CONUS is not at all the point.It cost EXPRESS much more than that. For what was paid for the prouduct, it should look well crafted and put together as well as shoot.
EXPRESS was making the point that he was very dissatisfied with the attention to detail the innards showed. I agree that HSP rifles are good shooters but even the custom rifles I have had built for much less money have the appearance of that attention to detail I demand.
I can accept rough appearance from a production hunting rifle but not from a high dollar semi custom or full custom rifle.
I use the car analogy because the crack does not affect the performance of the car but it does bother the purchaser. Whether this is immediately apparent or not. Using your analogy if I DID have the money to buy a Porsche and I new the innards were not all correct I would expect the salesman or company to fix it if I ask them to. Maybe I'm just funny that way.
HSP should either take the rifle back and fix it to EXPRESS' satisfaction OR replace it with a more satisfactory rifle. That is customer service.
EXPRESS, I hope you will add your own comments to this. I do not want to be putting words into your mouth nor implying anything that you may think. I am just spouting off as to my opinions about customer service.
As well as letting us know what comes of your complaints to HSP.
Thanx.
Dave in Idaho

 

[1894]

A more accurate analogy might be that you drive your new car a few miles, pull up and open the bonnet. The chassis looks as if it has been cut by an angle grinder, The paint on the wings has been sprayed over parts of the engine and the holes for the cables in the bulk head look like they were done with a hacksaw blade.

There is no car made today where that would be viewed as acceptable and it is not acceptable for a rifle out of a mainstream manafacturer whatever the cost. If it were me I would wonder on the quality of the barrel threading, the concentricity of the mount holes etc etc.

 

[SCL]

Dave,
The exchange rate comment does apply because folks were complaining that a $3400 rifle should have a flawless interior - my point is that its not a $3400 rifle from the manufacturer - it was $3400 becuase of exchange rates, importation duties, etc. Just because you pay $3400 for something does not mean that is what its worth. Go buy a new car - the second you drive it off the lot it depreciates anywhere from 10-20%.

I have seen idiots pay over blue book price for a Parker Hale sniper rifle that was rebarreled with a winchester tube. I have also seen guys purchase guns that were obviously refinished but the idiots paid full price again because the guns "looked new". Refinished is not new. Were those guns above worth what was paid for them? Absolutely not IMHO.

I think you guys need to get a drink, breathe deeply and relax - the product shoots better than guaranteed and looks great on the exterior - all the stuff you can readily see without taking out tools to look at stuff. Further tweaking of the gun to make the insides look pretty might make it perform worse - why fix something if it isn't broken? Ugly insides isn't broken to me - its an aestetic nit-pick and I really don't care about aestetics and I am not a nit-picker like you guys appear to be. That last comment is not meant as a flame or insult - you guys are just a more demanding consumer than I must be. I don't loose sleep over things that I cannot see that don't affect performance.

That said, I don't think HSP should have to pay to cover a replacement stock - the gun is not broken. It shoots better than guaranteed and there are no readily apparent flaws with the gun - no flaws IMHO because messy insides don't matter as long as the gun shoots as advesrtised and has no exterior flaws.

If I were HSP I may lose you as a future customer, but some customers are so demanding they will never be satisfied, and in the long run its better to lose them and their uptight friends compared to spending an extraordinary amount of time and money to keep them happy. Would you replace the stock if the customer said it wasn't green (or black or pick a color) enough for him? Do you run a special color mix and make a new stock just for this one uptight customer? Unless the customer is standing right there to see the new color mix, will you be completely sure its the right color?? Life is too short and time too valuable to waste on super demanding nit-pickers who are never truly satisfied. HS is a semi-custom outfit - if you want a special color or pretty insides then go to a full custom riflesmith. They guarantee performance - and that is what was delivered, along with a flawlessly finished exterior. Did HSP promise the customer that the insides would be flawless? No. Do they advertise flawless insides in their marketing materials? No. Why should they be held to a standard above what they advertise and guarantee? The guarantee .5 MOA - should they replace the gun because a customer is unhappy because his stick shoots in the .3's and he wanted a gun that shoots in the .2's??

No flames intented here - just my opinions. Everyone has the right to have whatever level of expectations and demands they want. I just avoid the types of customers who are never satisfied with anything. Just my .02 YMMV.

SCL

 

[Dave in Idaho]

SCL,
You and I could go on forever about this. It is obvious that your opinion on what should be expected from a finished prouduct and customer service is very different than mine. I can live with that.
My final thought for you is that a satisfied customer is important because of boards like this. Many business' survive by word of mouth and reputation. There have been numerous comments on this topic alone about customers less than pleased with HSP service. This has caused me to put them in the "questionable" catagory. I am not currently looking for a new toy but, when I do, I will not consider HSP. They have lost me as a customer and I have never bought their prouduct.
Customer service/satisfaction is important within reason. I agree with you there. We differ in that I feel EXPRESS' expectations of the finished prouduct were not met and are within reason.
Dave in Idaho

[ 07-30-2004: Message edited by: Dave in Idaho ]