HS Precision quality control (revisited)

[EXPRESS]

When I took my HTR out of it's stock the other day to install a new trigger, I noticed that the finish on the inside of the bedding surfaces was nothing short of rough and haphazard.
Course grinding on the alluminium surfaces and stock material spilling over onto it in places.
Where the two front sligh studs have been fitted the material has busted away forming rough, chiped holes, which alough of no consequence, is messy looking.

I baught the HS rifle with the intention of getting a rifle that would need no further gunsmithing work to get it up to scratch, but the finish on the inside of the stock is something I would expect from a mass production Remington.

The Price I paid for the rifle, at todays exchange rate in USD is $3,431.80USD so I would expect a near perfect rifle.
Unfortunatly this is representative of what we end up paying for anything imported here from the US.

I want to write to HS and send them some photos of the stock, but at the moment I can't find an e-mail link on their site, so I'll have to wait till this afternoon to be able to call them.

I will have to get a smith to skim bed the stock if I want a smooth bearing surface now, and that will cost me a further 130EU ($155USD)

Am I being unreasonable? The rifles does shoot well, after the first range session I got groups in the .3's so the roughness is probably not all that detremental to the rifles' accuracy.
I just would have liked to expect more in the finer details.
Does anyone else have any experience with these rifles and wantì's to comment on this?

At the moment I don't have a digital camera so I will have to get some prints developed before I can demonstarte what I am talking about.

[ 08-29-2004: Message edited by: EXPRESS ]

 

[Varmint Hunter]

While I agree with you that the rifle should be near perfect in every way; I would put much more emphasis on the accuracy and external asthetics of your new rifle.

Sounds to me that they meet this criteria.

No harm in informing H-S of your findings. It would be interestiong to hear their response.

VH

 

[Nighthawk]

I don't think you are being "unreasonable" at all. You paid all that money for something great and came out disappointed. When I begin making rifles I guarentee that will NEVER happen. I would call them and tell them to fix it.

 

[D.P.]

Good luck!
I just ordered a HS sporter short action for a 300 short mag. I discussed the special order length and placed the order with a Rep. at HS. Well they sent me a long action and tried to blame it on me. When I had them pull the order form that was sent with the money order short action #700 was bold and underlined! Even with ticket in hand they gave me crap and made me pay for the return shipping. I am happy with their stocks and expect rough inside, and always skim bed them. Be careful with the lower if you bed it the stocks tend to chip around the trigger guard.

(my last stock was a McMillan)

 

[Guest]

Custom Action=PGW

No complaints.

 

[Aussie]

Express ,
Bought a REM 700 VSSF-P that had fired 60 shots about 2 years ago . After I had owned it about a month I noticed hairline cracks running up the butt from the recoil pad on the HS stock . Faxed HS about 6 months ago and never got a reply . Had it fixed by a Queensland stockmaker who said it was cracked like that from the factory as there was evidence under the paint of an attempted repair . Maybe their warranty only extends to the original owner but any manufacturer who really values their reputation would at least have sent a reply . Guess the warranty department was closed ?
Quality control on that gun was non existant . Counterbored and ported from the factory . Muzzle crown was that bad it shot 1.25 MOA with everything. Couldn't do much about it without lopping off 2 1/2 inches . Needless to say that barrel is long gone.
Couldn't make up my mind whether I'd bought a varmint gun , a shotgun or just a plain lemon .

 

[Coyote Hunter]

I bought a XP-100 stock from them several yrs back and it took 8 mo's and a letter from my attorney to finally get it.

The stock was hand painted and was shipped in a bubble packing envelope and when I opened it up I was very unhappy, the stock was marked with "round" bubble marks! They are still there as of today.

Never buy from them again!
--------------
Zod

 

[John Stranahan]

EXPRESS-I don't have an HTR, but I have 3 of their stocks on Remington Actions. I always fit the HS precision stock to my Remington actions which is an easy process to do yourself. I understand that you paid for this to be done. This last time I put Shooters choice red grease on the parts of the action that would touch the Aluminum bedding Block. Torque the action screws with a torque wrench to 65 inch-pounds when you are done. This is a little tighter than you can do with a screwdriver style of tool.
You want two line contacts on the front portion (not 100 % contact) of the bedding block, one on each side of the block very near the sides of the aluminum block and sides of the stock. Usually all that you need to do to achieve this is to remove paint overspray or stock material that has seeped over the edge of the aluminum. Both materials are quite soft and easy to scrape off. At the back you want contact marks on both sides as well as the back of the tang. I had to remove some material from the bedding block sides in the thin area of the trigger to get the rear part of the receiver to seat properly. After you achieve contact here then coat the recoil lug and snug the action screws. Tap the rifle on the butt on the ground to seat the recoil lug. Scrape the Aluminum on the recoil lug seat until you get about 70% contact. I used a tiny 1/4 inch file that is ground and honed flat on the end as a scraper. This job does not take a very long time.
My .3 inch accuracy and yours attest to the fact that this stock works quite well without skim bedding.

There are some pictures of my latest long range hunting rifle with the HS precision stock in my
Journal

[ 07-21-2004: Message edited by: John Stranahan ]

 

[nottoofar]

I have an H-S Precision Pro Hunter model in .300 win mag.
It shoots groups comparable to yours with my hunting loads.
I have actually never had the action out of the stock. With groups like that never had a reason.
I sent it back to them once to check the headspace. Turned out to be pilot error.
They have been a pleasure to deal with and very responsive each time I dealt with them. From purchase to sending it back that time for inspection (had it back in 10 days).

Sorry you have not had such a good experience.

 

[Jon A]

Jerry, maybe I'm misreading your description, but as an Engineer I find it hard to believe that the V-block is bending the action. Remember, steel is three times as stiff as aluminum. It seems more likely to me that what you're describing is simply the action wedging the "V" of the block appart slightly as it's tightened.

 

[John Stranahan]

65 inch pounds is not exactly heavy torque. It is the stock manufactures recommended torque. They sell a torque wrench through their web site to tighten the action screws.

HS Precision

The bedding block only touches the action, to any great extent, at the front and the back. Not much contact near the middle to cause excessive bending. I agree that the V is wedged out a little. That is how it's designed. This provides rigid unmoving contact so that the rifle always finds the same resting state after the shot. If the screws are loose there may be some movement of the action in the stock. I also agree that 65 inch-pound is too much torque for a non pillar bedded wood stock, but just fine for the HS precision stock.
When I tighten on my one piece scope base or tighten down the scope there is also a small tendency to bend the action. I think what's most important is that things stay put in exactly the same place after the shot.

[ 07-20-2004: Message edited by: John Stranahan ]

 

[SCL]

Gents,
I have used and shot HSP rifles in everything from .223 up to .338 Lapua Magnum, all based on their proprietary action. All have been tackdrivers, far surpassing their .5MOA guarantee. No problems with stocks chipping or breaking, even in a big boomer like .338 Lapua.

I have yet to take the stock off since I never have needed to; but if it looked ugly I really wouldn't give a rats *** anyway - the guns shoot like the blazes, so and you cannot see the inside of the stock anyway. I'll take performance over looks anyday, especially if you cannot even see the ugliness because its inside.

Just my .02

SCL in Bogota

 

[Mysticplayer]

Express, that is very unfortunate but not uncommon. I have worked on some HS products and ingeneral the bedding is horrid and the interior finish slack. I guess what you don't see you don't pay for. The exterior paint also chips quite easily. For what they charge, it really isn't worth it.

However, they do supply the largest tactical army force on the planet so they must be "good" or at least good enough.

One other thing you must look at and so should JohnS, is the use of heavy torque to put the action into the stock. As a rule, this will distort the action which is not a good thing.

simple test, with your hand on top of the action, tighten and loosen the front action screw by hand. I bet you will feel that action moving. It is actually bending to fit inside that V groove bedding.

You just spent many dollars having some gunsmith precision align and true up the action, bolt and barrel to a few thous. Now you slap it into a stock that bends the action so much you can see and feel it. What's the point in that?

The last HS stock I worked on needed the bedding raised 1/8" to get a stress free fit.

If your rifle still shoots well after being bent so much, it only shows you how important all that truing really is...another story.

Jerry

PS you used to be able to find grafetti, cig. butts, and lunch leftovers in the door and compartments of Ferrari's. How did it make the owner feel after shelling out all those bucks?

 

[John Stranahan]

I did a little test on a Remington action and HS Precision Stock that I had just worked on. I have a close fitting mandrel to the bolt channel. It is a lapped in fit at the front. At the rear there is probably .0003-.0004 clearance, so that at a 6 inch distance from the back of the action with the front of the mandrel relatively tight the rod can be rocked up and down .0010 inch. It is a drag fit however (probably snug on the sides). No play when inserted from the front. I tested the rock and the drag fit with the action screws loose and tight. No change. I used .0001 inch indicating dial indicator to test the motion. No change. Note that I had a one piece scope base and scope attached which makes the action stiff in the vertical plane.
There are many ways to a precision rifle. Some of Benchrest guys glue the action in place. Some of 1000 yard benchrest guys use a barrel block glued to the barrel and glue the barrel block into the stock with the action floated.
I like to take the action out of the stock when it rains to reoil things up after the hunt and am quite satisfied with .2-.3 inch 3 shot groups. My zero does not change after removing and replacing the action. My Hart barreled .308 with the same stock work shot .150 inch 3 shot groups when it was new. Now it averages about .3 inches after 600 rounds.
A few tenthousandths bend is not really going to hurt anything. It might even bend in a better direction than relaxed on a Remington Receiver. You have a 50-50 chance. Note that my bolts are not sleeved.

[ 07-21-2004: Message edited by: John Stranahan ]