How are they made

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by summitsitter, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. summitsitter

    summitsitter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Could somebody please point me towards a sight that show you how to make a laminated stock.
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    its a real pain in the butt to make one especially with 1/16" or other "small" laminates. That is to say the larger the laminates the easier they are tp make. But on the other hand, fewer thicker laminates aren't as good looking or as structurally sound.

    Purchase of a blank is much more efficient process, I'd say.
     

  3. summitsitter

    summitsitter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    I probley will use a blank but I would really like to know how to do the laminated stuff.
     
  4. roundss

    roundss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    91
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Walnut and Laminate Hardwood Gunstock Blanks

    The pepper ones are real close to the ones that howa and savage use.
    That's what I have on my 270.

    If you want you can also get them in the basic shape, its all in the "unilet" tab and sub groups..............for the price you might as well go with the stock shape cut for you unless you want to do something really diff.
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2008
  6. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    806
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Roy,

    You wouldn't necessarily need a big commercial vacuum press like the one they show there on DIY... they make small electric vacuum pumps w/ bags for the hobby woodworker, or if you're really trying to do it on the cheap, they make manually pumped models as well. Then there is always the 'old-fashioned' way: lots and lots of clamps :D From what I've read of doing some of this sort of thing, like veneering, forming bends and twists and other 'non-linear' stuff, one of the tricks seems to be using a slow-setting resin glue that has a long open time. That and making the blank oversize to allow for some 'creep'.

    HTH,

    Monte
     
  7. zoeper

    zoeper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Summitsitter,

    I am also looking for info to make my own laminated stock. What i am most interested in is the supplies. What resins do you use and where to get the wood from.

    For techniques and vacuum info you can check out the following sites:
    www.joewoodworker.com
    and
    www.cnczone.com

    you can make your own vacuum pump by using an old fridge compressor, using your workshop compressor in reverse, or by using compressed air and a venturi vacuum generator.

    I think it is a very doable process to produce the blank, we just need to fill in a couple of blanks first.

    I will do some more research and report back.
    Pieter
     
  8. LostInSpace278

    LostInSpace278 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    The reason companies use a vacuum system on laminates of any sort is 1) I reduces the amount of air bubbles in the resin. 2) When a liquid is under vacuum it will boil off quicker and at a lower temperature, thus set up faster. Water boils at 210° F in the open air. Under vacuum of lets say 28 inches of mercury water will boil at 99.93° F.
     
  9. adam

    adam Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    GAST MANUFACTURING INC.

    Gast makes a few nice vacume generators that have a nice flow rate and pull a decent vacuume. The vane style are moderatly priced and can be run deadheaded.
     
  10. zoeper

    zoeper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    One other MAJOR reason for vacuum is the even clamping force it provides. I vacuum clamp flat parts while machining on the CNC mill and vacuum sucks (not);)
     
  11. zoeper

    zoeper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Does anybody here know what type of resin to use?
    I had a look at some of the off the shelf stocks and it looks like they do not cross the grain of the differnt layers as you would expect.
     
  12. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    806
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    I don't know if gun stock makers use the same stuff... some of the folks doing woodworking with bent laminations (i.e. making shapes/forms that would be nearly impossible with solid wood) and veneering seem to be using a urea formaldehyde glue (aka plastic resin glue) that resists creep (i.e. slippage of the laminations under pressure) but provides decent open time (time that you can move/change things before it starts to take a set - different from cure time).

    Here is a good article on the glue:

    http://www.djmarks.com/pdf/ureaglue.pdf

    Here is a link to the site of one prominent woodworker who does some amazing stuff:

    David J. Marks

    (If you've ever watched David Marks on DIY's Wood Works... this is his site)
     
  13. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    806
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    For an option in a completely different direction... one of the most recent copies of Precision Shooting magazine had an article from a fellow who makes his own stock for prototyping ideas regarding different design features, etc. He does it fairly low budget - he goes and gets some poplar 1x stock from Lowes, glues it together in a solid slab using Titebond PVA glue, and then does most of the machining, inletting, etc. while it's still square on the outside - makes it much easier to grip and register your tooling off of, etc. An interesting note that he made was that one way to prevent the glue slippage was to cut the boards over size and then tack a couple brads from an air nailer in the ends to pin the layers together while they are clamped up. Later when the blank is cut to size, just lop off those end regions.

    While the above does sound fairly redneckish, and you'd have to see the pictures of the stocks in question to appreciate just how true that is :D they do seem to shoot... after he'd submitted the original article, he managed to shoot a pending IBS 600yd BR record... 5 shots into .386" with a .308 Winchester (and a large dose of luck, in his own words). Sometime form follows function, and his method does have the benefit of being able to play and experiment with a stock design for relatively low cost before committing the time, effort, and money into doing it 'for real'.

    I've been meaning to get around to making a low-budget duplicator machine (aka 'Copy Carver'), with the intention of taking a stock I have that I really really like, that has been custom fitted to me and my large-ish shape, and duplicating it to a blank made of MDF slabs. After that, it should be reasonably doable to customize the few areas I want improved using a dremel and bondo, leaving me with a new 'master' to form a stock from. Might be worth 'test driving' it with a cheaper laminate (like poplar) first before spending the money on more expensive woods.

    Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2008
  14. zoeper

    zoeper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Milanuk,

    I often use MDF for prototyping and various other tempory setups an tooling. Should be perfect for your new master.

    I was wondering if something like fibreglass (polyester) resin would work if the laminates are first saturated in them and then vacuumed. Thinking about ir, if the laminates can be dumped in the resin and vacuum pulled over the lot, it should aid in sucking the air oout of the wood and filling the voids with resin.

    I would need to find some light wood that can be dyed first before laminating... any ideas?
    i suppose if it's going to be impregnated with resin anyway, the type of wood is not going to make much difference?
    P