Glock 21 reload question

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by D Scott, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. D Scott

    D Scott Well-Known Member

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    Any one here reload for their Glock ? I just picked up a glock 21 gen 4. I am reloading for it, using 230 gr, rn, with winchester brass and w 231 powder. I cant get the gun to cycle with any thing less than the max load listed at 5.3 gr of w231, anyone have experience with this powder? Even 5.1 gr (w231) wouldn't cycle the gun. I was hoping to come up with a target load, a little less than the max to shoot more without getting thumped to much. After researching a bit it seems w231 is one of the go to powders for 45 acp, should I try a different powder r start thinking about springs ? Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated
    Scott gun)
     
  2. REDHEAD

    REDHEAD Well-Known Member

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    For auto pistols , I switched to auto pistol powder like Power Pistol for my .40 sw. I don't crimp my auto's either- learned that lesson the hardway. I found that Long Shot is way over @ 50 % load. Go with a different powder. Are you sure you are maintaining a good solid grip? I found I have to drive my pistol forward and it works fine . I have blown up 3- .40 SW pistols. Very frustrating. .45 ACP seems more forgiving , fewer problems. Good luck lightbulb
     

  3. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    D Scott,

    Glocks (especially the M21s) need full power loads, unless the spring has been replaced with a lighter one (which I wouldn't advise). Very soft recoiling guns, and heavy loads aren't nearly as objectionable here as they would be in an M1911. The 231 is a perfectly suitable powder choice here, but I'd recommend a slightly slower powder for full-house ammunition.

    Yes, you DO need to crimp 45 ACP rounds, as you do virtually all autopistol ammunition. Try the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Use that in conjunction with a chamber gage, and you can kiss malfunctions and feed failures goodbye.

    Mentioned this before, but if you plan on shooting lead ammunition (cast or swaged bullets), you need to replace the barrel with one that uses conventional rifling rather than the polygonal system that comes standard in Glock pistols. They seriously do not play well with lead bullets.
     
  4. Eagle Six

    Eagle Six Member

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    Almost all auto loading pistol of the Glock design are setup for full power factory loads. If I wanted to shoot reduced loads I would expect to replace the main spring to compensate for the reduction in recoil function.

    Each main spring has some flexibility as to the handload it will like, so reducing a load by a small margin should still allow for reliable cycling function. Go beyond the limit and functioning problem will occur.

    Everyone has their own reaction to recoil, I personally feel the Glock 21 with full loads presents very little recoil, probably a little more than a full size 1911, but the felt recoil (the perceived recoil) is less than a 1911.

    Nonetheless, if the recoil bothers you, probably switching out the main spring and working up a reliable reduced load is an option. You will probably need to replace the sights for the slower moving bullet to adjust for POA/POI.

    If you also use this Glock for home defense or carry defense, you could switch out the target spring before starting your shooting session, and switch it back to the factory spring after the shooting session, so the full power defense loads would cycle reliably. Switching the sights back and worth.....not so easy! However, some would not recommend shooting a lot of reduced loads in a defense pistol and then carrying heavy loads.......they would say shoot a similar power load as the defense ammo you use.

    I use Unique powder and only load 230 grain bullets. A proper taper crimp is best. If you are not crimping or using a very shallow crimp, that could make a difference in the cycle function, if the load you tried, is on the edge of not being quite enough to assure reliable function.


    As Kevin recommends......


    Best Regards......Eagle Six
     
  5. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Interesting example of perception here; Personally, I find the recoil from a Glock to be noticeably "softer" than a M1911. Eagle Six feels it differently. No right or wrong here, just a matter of how it feels to each of us.

    Carried an M1911 daily for eleven years as a duty pistol. Wouldn't think of carrying anything other than a Glock these days, if I had any say in the matter.
     
  6. Eagle Six

    Eagle Six Member

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    Actually Kevin, I think we agree......my term "felt recoil" is probably based on your term "softer"........giving the impression the recoil is less.

    The 1911 and Glock 21 are both recoil cycle activated against a recoil main spring designs. If tested I would think actual recoil force on the lighter gun would be more than the heavier. The typical full size steel 1911 is going to weigh a tad bit more than the Glock 21, so I think the Glock 21 would generate more actual recoil if it were measured.

    Not having a scientific means to measure, I simply go by how it feels in my hand during the recoil cycle and recovery during follow through and back on POA. In that regard, I agree, it's "softer", therefore I referred to it, as I perceive the felt recoil to be less than the 1911. On the other hand, I'm also not recoil sensitive and neither the recoil of the 1911 or G21 bothers me......they actually just feel like.....well.....real guns! At the same time, I realize recoil is an issue to some shooters, and understand the concern of the OP.

    I've also carried wheel guns, 1911's and Glocks on duty. I also prefer the Glocks for the primary and backup.....but growing up with the 1911, there is a trust and soft spot I have for the full size 1911. Regardless, if given the choice, I will carry the Glock 21 into battle.

    So, I couldn't agree with you more.....

    Best Regards........E6
     
  7. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Not to hijack the thread here, but that same familiarity with the 1911 is exactly what gives me the opposite effect on the trust issue. I had several very reliable 1911s that I used on duty, but looking back on it, it was amazing at how proficient I was at clearing jams. Completely automatic to sweep the slide for a stovepipe, etc.. Funny how much that just became second nature.

    I've often joked since that if I ever have a jam with my Glocks, I'm a dead man. No immedaite action, and certianly nothing that I've ever gotten any practice with. I suspect I'd stand there and stare at it, dumbfounded, and wondering "WTF?" Yeah, I'm sold on them too. Still use my M1911 in bullseye matches, but that's about it these days.
     
  8. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I have hand loaded for my Glock 21 quite a bit with no issues using Unique powder. Used it a lot in competition plate shoots. Other aspects of the Glock to be aware of is first, the firing pin spring should be replaced ith a heavy duty one as it will eventually wear out and misfire. Install a light trigger pull disconnect fot a better trigger pull. Lastly, a Bar Sto drop in barrel if you want to shoot lead cast bullets. The polygonal barrel is only good for jacketed bullets. Add high capacity mags and it's a fast, reliable, and accurate shooter using reloads, cast or jacketed.
     
  9. REDHEAD

    REDHEAD Well-Known Member

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    I should check out the LEE crimp die, is it preset so you can not over crimp? If you crimp on your own , do go ever so gentle . The LEE crimp must be the way to go, for I have dismall luck. I have never heared anyone address crimping auto pistol bullets - how little /too much. Very confused and nervious on that subject.
     
  10. D Scott

    D Scott Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback, Kevin I repliied to your comments on the Hide"
    Dont get me wrong, I think this gun shoots great, Iwas just curious about how the powder would perform as this is my first experience with reloading pistols.

    Any thoughts on crimping ? best to do in two steps or just do it the rcbs way crimp and seat in one step ?

    Thanks again Scott
     
  11. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I would strongly recommend using a separate taper crimp dye for best results. I would also recommend getting a cartridge gauge. It's a dye that a finished bullet can be placed into to determine that the finished cartridge is sized and crimped to exact dimension. If it doesn't fit flush in the dye, it likely won't feed in your auto pistol. Don't need to check every round but it's very useful for checking different loads and components.
     
  12. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    as Greyfox has already suggested, use a separate taper crimp die and do this as a secondary operation. Nothing is helped by trying to squeeze dhe crimp into place while you're still trying to push the bullet down into the case, trust me. Always, always, always do this as a final step AFTER the bullet has been seated to its finished depth/OAL.

    He's spot on about the case gages, too. They're available from Dillon (among others) and can be found on page 16 of their current catalog. At about $15, they're the best investment you cna make in assuring that your reloads will chamber freely, and go a long way towards eliminating stoppages. Very worthwhile, and wouldn't even consider loading without using them.
     
  13. D Scott

    D Scott Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback so far, Had a question on brass length, I have some that is measuring .890-.894 out of the bag winchester, some brass from store bought ammo PMC, and some other Winchester measuring .886 to .885, thought the average is close to .890 or so.
    Should I be concerned that this new brass is somewhat short and inconsistent, considering the max listed length is .898 ? since this brass will probably shorten with more reloads ? I didnt think I should be trimming brass thats already short ?

    I am going to go with the Lee factory Taper crimp dies and some gauges as was suggested Thanks in advance, Scott
     
  14. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    Not sn issue if you are using a taper crimp.