Hopefully, if that's the case, the barrel manufacturer guarantees their product for a full replacement at no cost to the customer.
Frustrating build
- Thread starter dcederberg
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Hopefully, if that's the case, the barrel manufacturer guarantees their product for a full replacement at no cost to the customer.
How many gunsmiths check the roundness of a barrel prior to installation? How many slug test barrels prior to installation?
I now check the twist rate of all of my barrels prior to paying a gunsmith to install them - after a 10-twist Lilja turned out to be a 10.55" twist AFTER I paid to have it installed! But I don't have the equipment or the knowledge to complete those other tests. I buy barrels from manufacturers I think are most apt to manufacture them properly. After that, it's a crap shoot. Because after the barrel leaves the manufacturing plants, they get installed and used as is - almost all of the time. In order to get this extra QA/QC work performed by a gunsmith, it will cost more. My experience is that most gunsmiths never perform this extra QA/QC. It takes time, and not an insignificant quantity of time. They want to remain competitive with their charge rates, and if 99% don't spend the time, then how can the 1% afford to? Some do. It's a business decision.
I believe the barrel manufacturers are in the best position to QA/QC test their barrels prior to shipment. But it's the same story there. High end barrels versus the need to compete with the cost of the majority of barrels being sold with lesser manufacturing/testing costs. Some barrel manufacturers charge more for "premium" barrels which have passed some extra-ordinary QA/QC testing. Perhaps this is the way to go? They can probably test their barrels more economically and efficiently than the gunsmiths can, after acquiring some specialized testing equipment. So in this respect, we might (like in might, maybe, possibly - without any absolute assurance) get what we pay for when purchasing a barrel, by paying a little more rather than a little less. An out-of-round barrel should be able to get identified and culled with a straightforward air-gauge test... I would think.
I now check the twist rate of all of my barrels prior to paying a gunsmith to install them - after a 10-twist Lilja turned out to be a 10.55" twist AFTER I paid to have it installed! But I don't have the equipment or the knowledge to complete those other tests. I buy barrels from manufacturers I think are most apt to manufacture them properly. After that, it's a crap shoot. Because after the barrel leaves the manufacturing plants, they get installed and used as is - almost all of the time. In order to get this extra QA/QC work performed by a gunsmith, it will cost more. My experience is that most gunsmiths never perform this extra QA/QC. It takes time, and not an insignificant quantity of time. They want to remain competitive with their charge rates, and if 99% don't spend the time, then how can the 1% afford to? Some do. It's a business decision.
I believe the barrel manufacturers are in the best position to QA/QC test their barrels prior to shipment. But it's the same story there. High end barrels versus the need to compete with the cost of the majority of barrels being sold with lesser manufacturing/testing costs. Some barrel manufacturers charge more for "premium" barrels which have passed some extra-ordinary QA/QC testing. Perhaps this is the way to go? They can probably test their barrels more economically and efficiently than the gunsmiths can, after acquiring some specialized testing equipment. So in this respect, we might (like in might, maybe, possibly - without any absolute assurance) get what we pay for when purchasing a barrel, by paying a little more rather than a little less. An out-of-round barrel should be able to get identified and culled with a straightforward air-gauge test... I would think.
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
We did catch it during our prefit inspection. If we used range rods we would have never caught it. We use grizzly rods along with a long stem indicator. This was a customer supplied barrel. They reluctantly sent out 3 more all out of round the same amount. They were out of round full length. It was like the button was out of round and the exact same one was used on al the replacement barrels. Worst part was they could not / would not detect or admit it. It was a full .003" wider than tall. It was a mess and in the end, at the insistence from said barrel maker that it would shoot fine, the barrel owner insisted we just put it on anyway. It was a dog. (Read 2-3" groups) I have never seen one yet that can pass our basic QC check.
Well there's a horror story that could cause some sleepless nights. Good for you for running the additional tests, and for sharing your findings. If you were able to identify the defect, the barrel manufacturer surely could have after you told them what the problem was. Which is, as you stated, the worst part of it.
Your customer must have been bummed big-time. I'm sure it was no consolation, no matter what you might possibly have said, after the fact. At least you sent up the red flag. Kudos to you!
You're bound to get some questions now. Such as - did the manufacturer ever come clean and make good after they attested their barrel would shoot, yet it didn't shoot worth a ****?
Your customer must have been bummed big-time. I'm sure it was no consolation, no matter what you might possibly have said, after the fact. At least you sent up the red flag. Kudos to you!
You're bound to get some questions now. Such as - did the manufacturer ever come clean and make good after they attested their barrel would shoot, yet it didn't shoot worth a ****?
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
They did come clean for them. Officially they said you are not supposed to measure them like that. They are the maker and we were supposed to just stick it on just like they do. We would never have had that problem if we just let them do the installs. I'm was sick of calling them and I'm certain they are glad I'm not calling them. I never will again. They have their loyal following and that is okay by me as long as I never see another one. I have been holding back for years but just couldn't any longer because it sucks to have a custom rifle not work.
I just got a Stag Arms varmint AR in that is supposed to shoot 1/2 MOA but is at best a 3 MOA rifle. It has the very same oval bore. .003" wider than tall. Anyone want to guess what brand the barrel it is? That is a rhetorical question and I will not confirm or deny who it really is. I'm out.
I just got a Stag Arms varmint AR in that is supposed to shoot 1/2 MOA but is at best a 3 MOA rifle. It has the very same oval bore. .003" wider than tall. Anyone want to guess what brand the barrel it is? That is a rhetorical question and I will not confirm or deny who it really is. I'm out.
Yeah, I understand. Thanks for sharing.
For what it's worth, I'm ready to hire you the next time I need a barrel installed on an action. I've read your web site and was very favorably impressed with the description of the methods you employ. I knew that your normal practice is to run pre-installation inspection and testing of barrels.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I was surprised by a thread with several top end CNC smiths that claimed you can't learn anything by inspecting a barrel so just chamber and shoot. I feel a guys should at least should try to stack the odds in your customers favor!!
Would you link that thread, I would like to read it.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
"Earth to the thread, earth to the thread,,, come in please!". How quickly we blame the barrel. Not that I'm defending any barrel maker, here. The OP did say that when he relieved some of the torque from the guard screws that accuracy seemed to improve. Not to the degree he'd like, but better. That says to me that there's a possible bedding issue. Most likely some stress somewhere. No one has suggested to check the length of the front scope mount screw to be sure it's not touching the barrel tenon, or to check the front guard screw to make sure it's not touching the bolt lug ever so slightly. I've seen that more than once, especially from someone who'll "mount the bases and scope myself" or from a 'smith that's not paying attention or has just got off the phone with someone with some far out notion that has taken up 20 minutes of his time, needlessly. As for barrels,,,, unlike investments, past preformance is a very good indicator of future results. Those who have been doing barrel work for a length of time know very well whos' barrels they prefer and trust, and those they do not. We can "guess" and blame components from now through Sunday, but that's all it is,, guessing. Without in hand examination it turns into a waste of bandwidth. If the builder can't seem to figure it out, have a different set of experienced eyes look it over.
Agree. That's why I recommended he have another gunsmith examine the rifle - a gunsmith with a bore scope. I didn't mean just study the bore. A separate gunsmith to inspect all the other factors that could make a rifle shoot poorly. And in addition inspect the bore with the bore scope.
Barrelnut
Well-Known Member
Yea. We just went full circle back to replys 1 and 2. 
Barrelnut
Well-Known Member
Yes! And you learn so much along they way don't you! It's a 5 star thread for sure.
