First attempt at annealing - pics included

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Dr. Vette, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    After having some problems with neck tension consistency using the FC brass that came with my rifle I thought I'd better finally try my hand at annealing. I would love a Bench Source unit but don't shoot enough to justify the $500 outlay right now. I tossed out the idea Sunday afternoon at the gun club that some of us should group together and buy a unit, but no one else bit, so...

    I bought some 450 degree Tempilaq because that is what was readily available through the local welding supply company. Nobody had 650 or even knew if they could order it. All of the brass has been prepped by depriming, cleaning, etc and was rejected a week ago because I couldn't get consistent necks; most bounced right back when trying to size them with a collet neck die. So, they were all prime candidates. All received a small line of Tempilaq about 1/8" below the shoulder, with 5 of the 10 then receiving a line running all the way down the case. I am using MAPP gas, and quenching in water as soon as I see a bit of red in my darkened garage. Only 1 small wattage bulb is on. My cordless drill and a 12mm deep socket held the brass and spun it. I first tested 20 cull brass of the same brand to get the technique down.

    Below are the photos of the brass. The single 450 degree line burned up about 1 second before the first hint of redness appeared, and did so consistently. Each piece was in the flame for about 6 seconds. You can also see that the ones with the long stripe burned about the same degree consistently too. Of note, the first 3 photos have the Tempilaq stripes facing up, on the 4th photo they are on the bottom away from the camera.

    So how do they look? Color good or not good? Any additional recommendations before I do more?
    I'm tempted to next run these through my Lee collet die and see how the neck sizing works to see if I gained anything with this experiment. However I thought I'd post them here first for your thoughts.
     

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  2. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    I have my propane torch clamped down, turn brass with cordless screwdriver and have a metronome by my ear. I count 4 sec. with 6BR and 6 sec. with 7mag size cases . My brass never has looked like lapua does. But I always have the rainbow lines like you do.
    Personally I think its all in consistency . Do em all exactly the same without over doing the temperature.
    The only ones I quench is the tiny cases.
     

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  3. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    Also Lee case holder fits my screwdriver so it can be rotated smoothly. I sonic clean after to remove the sticky tarnish from inside the necks. If you have over annealed and leave the sticky tarnish inside necks you'll crush the shoulder with the sizing mandrel. Dont ask me how I know!
     
  4. flashhole

    flashhole Well-Known Member

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    tbrice, those cases look perfect.
     
  5. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    Today was winchester .308 day they got 5 seconds. Yeh they never quite look like an annealing machines color I just stop when the neck turns dull red.
     

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  6. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I always thought you guys over on the west side of the state were loaded.....

    Problem with a group buy on one machine is who keepsa the machine...lol

    I see you have now experienced the joys of messy templaq.

    There is an alternative. Your LWS should have temperature sensitive crayons. Not quite as messy as templaq.

    Your cases don't look bad (for a hand job) but springback will tell the story. I'd use the vicegrip method. It works pretty well.
     
  7. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Vette your cases look good for what I call a partial anneal/stress relief on the shoulder to add a little flex back and regain neck tension but a full anneal is going to require a little more heat, 575-600* for 5-6 seconds on 06 to 300wm sized cases.
     
  8. D Scott

    D Scott Well-Known Member

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    there is a great article on Accurate shooter.com about annealing , they were talking about 600-650 deg 5-6 seconds , I ordered some templic 650 paint, come off pretty easy after quenching .

    Scott
     
  9. g0rd0

    g0rd0 Well-Known Member

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    looks to me that you are doing it right. If after you anneal when you resize (FL size), some cases collapse then you are giving it too much time under the torch. Every time I anneal a bunch I also trim after sizeing.
     
  10. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    At this point I only neck size. I've rarely had to full length size, and it's not my intent with these for now.

    I found that I had over 100 more FC brass under the bench already cleaned so they are being trimmed, flash holes deburred, and then I'll anneal them as well. My goal is to avoid finding that after resizing I have a variation in actual neck openings. Consistency is my goal, though it might take swapping to a Redding bushing die. As many here use a Lee collet die with good results I'd like to see if I can do that first though. I have used a Redding neck busing die vs a Lee collet die in another caliber and had identical results when shooting so I should be able to do it here.
     
  11. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    DrVett I adapted a torque wrench to my press instead of the handle when using lee collet neck dies. Not that I ever had any problems with the regular way but now I know they're all pressed with the same amount of ass.
     
  12. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    I use a Forster Co-Ax, and the die sits at the same place for each shell. The arm then also stops at the same place for each one, so I suspect that the force exerted on each is the same too. That's a lot of assumptions but it seems to make sense.

    I also usually spin the shell and compress it 3 times as per the Lee instructions.
     
  13. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    Attached are some photos of my second attempt. I used a metronome to time each case (great suggestion!) and it worked very well.

    Of note, I ran them through the collet die today, and each seemed to resize just fine and stay resized. Previously I would run them through the die and some wouldn't neck down enough. I checked old brass, my annealed brass as well as some purposely over-annealed brass using the pliers test, and my annealed ones appear to be performing just fine.

    Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
     

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  14. flashhole

    flashhole Well-Known Member

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    Looks great. Load em up and shoot em.