Explain MIL/MIL scope vs MIL/MOA scope?

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by benson821, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. benson821

    benson821 Active Member

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    I'm about to purchase a new rifle in 22-250 and am looking at the Weaver Tactical Grand Slam scope 3-10x40 1/10 mil adj with mil reticle.

    I own a super sniper with mil/moa, and i don't under stand how you are supposed to use a mil/mil scope and how you should use a mil/moa scope??

    right now with the super sniper i just input my load data in my iSnipe app on my ipod. i figure out how many clicks or moa i need to rise up for the range i'm at.

    Would you recommend the Weaver Tactical Grand Slam Scope (Weaver Tactical Grand Slam Rifle Scope 3-10x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA). would you recommend this scope for a coyote/truck/plinking rifle?? any other suggestions?
    I was also looking at the Buckmaster 6-18 mildot (Nikon Buckmasters Rifle Scope 6-18x 40mm Side Focus Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA)
     
  2. MSLRHunter

    MSLRHunter Well-Known Member

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    Most of the guys that advocate the mil/mil scopes are the tactical or military guys. They are more comfortable with mils, so they prefer for their scopes to have a mil based reticle and mil turrets. All of mine have mil based reticles but moa turrets. It is just what you are used to and what works best for you.
     

  3. rinodods

    rinodods Well-Known Member

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    Part of it is preference. Having matching reticle and adjustments can be quite nice if you need a second shot though. For instance if I'm using a my mil/mil scope and I'm set on the calibrated power setting for the reticle I can spot my miss use the reticle to measure how far the shot was off and dial the correction into the scope. Now if you are using an FFP (First focal plane) scope then it won't matter what zoom setting you are using you can measure at any setting.

    Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA
    1. So I fire, see my miss went 4MIL/MOA low
    2. I reach up dial in 4MIL/MOA elevation
    3. Hold center on target and it is a hit.

    Now if your scope was MIL/MOA there would have to be some conversion done in there some place to get your adjustment.

    MOA/MIL

    1. Fire see miss measured at 4mil in scope reticle
    2. Convert MIL to MOA to find the needed correction.
    3. Hope my math was right and dial in correction
    4. Hold center on target and hit.

    However, if you are just going to watch your shot and use the reticle for holdover then it really won't matter what you have. Just don't find your holdover or windage at one power setting then switch to another zoom setting and try to use the same holdover on an SFP scope. You will miss!

    Now the conversion isn't that bad but it is one less thing you need to be aware of if you have MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA. Doesn't really matter which way you go as long as they match it works the same. In your case you are using software to give you the required correction and it is doing the conversion for you if it is setup properly. You can be quite happy with a mixed set if you aren't using the reticle to measure corrections to dial in on. Hope that helps and I actually explained it correctly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  4. benson821

    benson821 Active Member

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    My father currently has a Super Sniper 10x42 on his AR15 (scope is mil/moa), I use my ballistic program and see what the drop is at the range, either look at the inches drop or the moa drop and dial one of those into the scope.

    From what I am understanding about mil/mil scopes they work basically the same as mil/moa, but with mil/mil if the dope you put into the rifle is off you can use the reticle to either compensate for the shot being off or you can dial the new dope in using the reticle to measure. Is that basically it? (it basically allows for a more precise follow up shot if your first one doesn't connect)

    With the Super Sniper I also got a Mildot Master which uses the reticle for range measuring, is that what you use with a mil/mil scope or can you just make a chart that shows drop at differnt ranges and put your adjustment into mils?

    I currently use the iSnipe app from my ipod as my ballistic software for my long range shooting and figuring out drop and how much elevation and windage to eithe dial in or hold over. Does it really matter if i get a mil/moa scope or a mil/mil scope if i just use the software to tell me my bullet drop?? or will one of the scopes just make it easier? if so explain.
     
  5. rinodods

    rinodods Well-Known Member

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    You've just about got it. The real advantage to MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA is just being able to measure a missed shot with the reticle and dial that measurement directly into the scope. If you just use your software to setup your shot and then just use your reticle to hold off if the shot is off then it won't matter if you are using MIL/MOA.

    As for ranging it won't matter what your scope is for adjustments you just need to have a reticle that allows you to range. The standard mildot is just fine for that if you have a good idea of your target size. If your target size estimate is off then your range will be off. Having a MIL/MOA scope will not hurt your ability to use the reticle for getting a range to target.

    You can make a drop chart for any combo you like. Your software is basically giving you this for each set of data you enter. Even with your software though it is a good idea to do a range verification of the corrections your software is giving you. Sometimes the calcs don't quite match real word for many reasons. You really need to setup and shoot at various ranges and see how close your software gets you. Once you do this at several ranges and record your results you can play with your software settings until the projected drops match real world a little closer.
     
  6. benson821

    benson821 Active Member

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    So your basically saying either option will work for me since i'm using ballistic software. It's just that the mil/mil will work a bit easier for me if my ballistics are off because I can spot my miss and use the reticle to measure for my scope adjustment and dial that into the scope.

    Would you guys suggest a scope with adjustable turrets and mildot reticle for coyote hunting which could have shots going out to a MAX of 600 yards. I don't plan on shooting out that far but I would like to know that I have a good chance to drop the dog at that range. Or would you suggest a regular reticle and scope and just learn my ballistics and my rifle.
     
  7. Jon A

    Jon A Well-Known Member

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    Yes. For learning, there's no time like the present. And just because those knobs and dots are there doesn't mean you have to use them. You'll find they become more useful as you get familiar with how they work.

    Yes, I'd definitely recommend matched turrets/reticle. It's a much better way to go.

    Finally, while the Weaver is OK, if you could find just a few more bucks to afford the SS 3-9 I really think it's perfect for your application. It has a lot more travel and has earned a very good reputation for durability.
     
  8. benson821

    benson821 Active Member

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    I would like to go with that scope but this is more of a budget rifle (for now). Its going to ride in the truck quite a bit and be used for coyotes, varmints, plinking.

    Alright I'm somewhat reconsidering my options. I like the Super Sniper but I think 10x is possibly too much power for those closer range shots. What about the 6x?

    The scopes I have been looking hard at are the:
    Buckmaster 6-18 Mildot
    Millet Buck Gold 4-16x56 mildot
    Super Sniper 6x (10x may be too much magnification?)
    Simmons Predator Quest (i would put tape on my zero mark on turret and use that as a makeshift adjustable turret)
    Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-10 mil/mil scope.

    Any Reviews or Comments or pictures on these scopes?
    my budget is around $300.
     
  9. rinodods

    rinodods Well-Known Member

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    Yep better to have the option and not use it then need it later and spend more cash.
    Seems everyone is getting into the swing of things these days so you'll find MIL/MIL on some weavers, bushnell, and millett, scopes. I shoot a Millett TRS on one rifle and have had pretty good luck. It tracks and returns to zero. Glass isn't awesome but it works. Just had it out shooting steel at 650 last week. I think maybe sniper central will have some reviews on a few of these scopes if you want to take a look.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  10. Jon A

    Jon A Well-Known Member

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    A good fixed 6X will usually get the job done no matter what it is, but I still prefer variables. Of those listed I think I'd go with the Weaver 3-10, especially since it has the matching clicks.
     
  11. benson821

    benson821 Active Member

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    That is true I guess it would be better to have turrets then to need them and not have them.

    I'm looking at the Buckmaster 6-18 and the Weaver Tactical Grand Slam 3-10.
    The buckmaster has a sunshade and a bit bigger scope. the Weaver doesn't have a sunshade is more compact. I like both but can only get 1.

    Any reviews or comments ont either of these??
     
  12. bridgebuilder

    bridgebuilder Well-Known Member

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    I have one of these Weaver Tactical Grand Slam scope 3-10x40 1/10 mil adj with mil reticle. on a Dpms 16" 308 and it tracks perfectly out to 500 yds . thats as far as i havegun) shot it but thats along ways with a 16 inch 308 for me. I wouldn't be afraid to but more of these scopes for medium range shooting and plinking .
     
  13. benson821

    benson821 Active Member

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    I like the features of the Weaver Scope, if it came with a sunshade it would be a done deal but it doesn't. Any idea of what kind will work or where to get one for that scope?? I heard a nikon 40mm sunshade fits them. (truth??)

    Does not having a parallax adjustment on that scope bother you or is the parrallax good out to 5-600?
     
  14. buckyne

    buckyne Active Member

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    Couldn't you just get the kenton scope turrets in MIL's and avoid the whole Mil/MOA conversion issue?