energy requirements

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by peppy1hunting, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. peppy1hunting

    peppy1hunting Well-Known Member

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    Hey can anyone tell me what the minimum ft/lbs of energy required to harvest elk humanely- Trying to come up with long distance elk loads but would like feed back so I can determine maximum distances to realistic take elk- Thanks
     
  2. firstcoueswas80

    firstcoueswas80 Well-Known Member

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    i like atleast 1000 for deer, maybe 1300+ for elk? just pullin numbers off the top of my head
     

  3. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Energy is a subjective term and subject. 5000 FPE wont do you a bit of good if you are using full metal jacket bullets. The game will run a LONG way with a minimal blood trail before expiring. What you need to concider is a good bullet that will A: hold up under high velocity impacts and B: expand on low velocity impacts. Bullets such as the ACCUBOND open at lower velocities and stay together on the close up shots. The damage done is more important than pure energy. Energy may be needed for penetrating VERY large game such as moose, but more important is bullet performance. Yes I understand that bullet performance and energy can be related. For example and AMAX bullet that will generate 4500 foot pounds is going to desintegrate upon impact and a FMJ will blow through a moose whether it is delivering 500 or 5000 foot pounds. The point here is match the bullet to the critter and range and let the bullet do the work. Arrows seldom deliver more than 70 FPE at the handle let alone on impact and yet arrows with proper heads cleanly and quickly kill game. Bullets can do the same. If you are looking for a 600 yard elk bullet I would suggest tying the accubond. It truly is a miracle bullet for game this side of 1/2 mile.
     
  4. peppy1hunting

    peppy1hunting Well-Known Member

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    have been using 160tsx and had good results- been considering 168 berger vld. Bergers probably don't hold up quite as good as the barnes but might give better accuracy at longer ranges- would be interested in seeing what ft/lbs of energy each of these would require to preform well.
     
  5. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    If its the 7mm you are using, try the 160 Accubonds. You wont be dissapointed in accuracy, wound effects and decent BC's. The LR accuacy is also outstanding. I do admit that I dont know what kind of distance you talking about.

    Info needed:

    Bullet diameter, bullet weight, velocity, and your maximum range for an elk shot.
     
  6. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    bullelk, Most number you see in the mags is 1200 for deer,1500-2000 for elk. AS stated before, shot placement and penetration is what kills, not energy. I try to stay near these numbers, but have successfully fudged with a good shot angle! Especially, with the new premium bullets, rules don't apply as much as a few years ago. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  7. peppy1hunting

    peppy1hunting Well-Known Member

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    I guess that's what I'm asking. If the shot placement were good. I was just wondering how far you could extend the shot distance to get a good humane kill vs poor penetration and poor bullet performance. So you're saying to keep energy at about 1500 ftlbs to get reliable performance. Sounds like I should look into the Acubond also. Thanks for the feedback.
     
  8. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    I have seen deer drop with shoulder shots with 22-250 and swifts at 400 yards and the energy is down to about 600 lbs. I would say for elk about 1000 lbs minimum with good shot placement. The experts say 1000lbs for deer and 1500lbs for elk, but I think thats a little much. Bottom line is to put the bullet in the chest cavity with an ample amount of energy and likely the animal will be yours.
     
  9. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I never plan for a perfect shot angle while using a minimal set-up. There are far too many variables in the field and not everyone can pass up on a shot which isn't 100%. Sometimes 95% will be the best that you will ever get.

    I typically use cartrides and bullets that are more then is necessary under ideal circumstances but will get the job done if the environmental conditions, or the bullet impact, was not exactly as I planned.
     
  10. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that with elk, more is better. That is why premium bullets make sense. You usually don't get the perfect shot presentation. Angles are harder to pull off on a big animal like an elk. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  11. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with remingtonman_25_06 that 600fpe for deer is adequate but for elk I would try and keep it towards that 1200fpe. This is given good placed shots. Don't get me wrong on the part that more is better when it comes to energy. Also good bullets are a big part. Like peolpe have said, solids aren't good big game bullets for american game. I haven't tried the accubonds yet but I have had awesome performance with the ballistic tip. Both elk I have seen hit with the .308 180grbt fell where they stood. 100yards for one and a tad over 500 for the other.
     
  12. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Energy requirements are a subjective thing , its not actualy the energy that you need to be looking at as much as it is bullet performance. now if the chance of you shooting a bull at 500yds in the butt as hes walking away then yea your gonna need more energy to get that bullet through 4-5 feet of body to get to the vitals.
    if your going to be hunting up close and be in a position where you'll have to make a hurried shot at a bad angle then shoot somting a little biggerish b ut if you now that your shots are gonna be in the 300-600yd range on animal that are grazing and you'll have time to wait for a broadside shot then you caliber and bullet choice gets alot larger.
    But as for the energy question
    If I shoot s bull through the ribs at 10feet with my 45 ACP and a 230gr XTP I know hes not going to go far and thats only 500lbs enegy max !!

    What need to be answered here is what caliber are you shooting , then maybe someone can give bullet and range estimations.
     
  13. peppy1hunting

    peppy1hunting Well-Known Member

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    As I said earlier- using 7mm rem mag- have been using Barnes TSX 160 gr- but am considering Berger 168 gr VLD- also considering Accubond 160 gr after previous comments. I am just looking for some guidlines as I extend the ranges that I am comfortable with shoot at as to where it becomes borderline that the bullet will not preform well. I don't want marginal shots the would and have a poor chance of humane kill. I do appreciate all the feed back that has been given- I did shoot a nice bull this fall at 450yds with the Barnes TSX 160gr and thought it preformed very well. 1 shot! But was just wondering how far that might extend if you needed to. I agree shot placement is critical, but there comes a point somewhere that the bullet no matter which one you use does not retain enough energy or velocity to perform as it should. That is what I'm looking for, realizing that that distance will change depending on the bullet selected. I like the Barnes but would like to look at other options if they would do better. Thanks- does any one know BC for 160gr Accubond?
     
  14. IChaseCoues

    IChaseCoues Well-Known Member

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    It seems also that there is a greatest distance that an individual can consistently hit a target. That distance should be taken into account along with retained energy and bullet performance.
    I have determined that my bullet will do its job on deer at X distance, but I cant put it where it needs to be past Y distance.
    Man I hope I find a load that shoots better!