I posted this on another forum, but I figured I would post it here, where there are a higher concentration of reloaders. You know this is something that has kinda puzzled me for a while.....And I have finally come to the conclusion that 99% of reloading data is worthless, especially major manufacturers published data. About the only manual that I trust is the speer reloading manual from a few years ago. I have several loads from that book that I thought were a grain or two under max, and were very mild in "my" rifle, they showed absolutely no pressure signs (primers came out the same shape as they were when I put them in), and I look at some published data on Hodgdons site, and my load is a full 2 grains OVER there listed max....I think there max load was around the starting loads in other books, I am convinced they work there loads up find a max pressure and then fully cut at least 5% off the loads for "safety reasons" Now this brings me to the hypocricy in all this....I have recently bought a few boxes of factory stuff (couple boxes of winchester and federal) They were all loaded so hot I couldn't believe it.....The winchesters the primer showed signs of pressure, and the federal was the same, but the federal brass actually had extractor marks on it!!!! I KNOW these loads were way hotter than anything listed in any manual. Now my only question is this....Why? Do manufacturers make more money on factory loads than selling the components? I have been reading for years that people claim handloaders cant get the velocity that they get in the factories. Now I am believing they may be right, because I don't think people are crazy enough to load to those pressures.... Alright I will get off my soapbox but has anybody else noticed this?