difference in 7 MMs ?????

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Alfred Crouch, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. Alfred Crouch

    Alfred Crouch Well-Known Member

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    I sure would appreciate some experiences and opinions: I am considering putting together one of the 7MM rifles for a mule deer, elk & pronghorn rifle. I live and hunt mostly in the East but I am preparing for a couple western hunts in the next few years. I look at the reloading and bullet performance data for the 7MMs and it leaves me with a lot of questions. My goal is to develope a balanced and reasonaable rifle for practical western hunting. It isn't my desire to have a gun capable of the longest shot to ever possibly present itself. The RUMS use from 90 to 100 grains of powder with a barrfel life of 1000 rounds but they apparently kill at phenominal distances. The regular 7 MM Rem mag uses a fraction as much powder but still achieves very respectable Velocity. From what I read the recoil difference is also very significant. What is the difference in effective killing range and is it really worth the additional powder, barrel wear and recoil punishment?

    I want to balance recoil, powder used, barrell life, attainable velocity, killing range etc. I haven't hunted out west but based on all of my reading I think I could settle with a good shooting 800 yard rifle. It seems to me that I could spend a little more time to get within this range and still get lots of shots at desirable game.

    What are your thoughts? What is your experience? Which of the 7 MM calibers would you be inclined to select? 7 MM Rem Mag, 7 MM WSM, 7 STW, 7 RUM, 7 Weatherby Mag. etc. Thanks for any and all input.
     
  2. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    I have a little experience with the STW and a ton of experience with the 7mm Rem Mag. If you've never hunted out west before, I'd recommend the 7mm Rem Mag. It is a phenomenal cartridge and is easily capable of 800yds on Mule deer (my personal 7mm Rem Mag shot on a Muley is slightly longer than that).

    I've not played with the 7mm WSM, but for all but the heaviest bullets, it is nearly the equal of the Rem Mag. I've played with the 300WSM and it is a phenomenally efficient and easy to shoot round. If the 7WSM is it's equal, it would likely be as good of choice as the Rem Mag.

    The Rem requires a long action and the WSM can be built in a short action configuration. Most WSM's hold one fewer round in the magazine than the 7mm Rem mags.

    All in all, every cartridge you mentioned would meet your requirements. If you could find an older (1960's) Rem Model 700 BDL in 7mm Rem Mag, you'd not only have a great rifle/cartridge, but you'd have one of the classic western rifles ever made.

    AJ
     

  3. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    From everything you just mentioned I would look strongly at the 7mm WSM or even the 300 WSM. The 300 WSM will gain a bit more recoil only if youre running bullets heavier than what you would in the 7 WSM but will offer better bbl life over the 7WSM. If you want even better barrel life and less recoil, with acceptable performance, look at the SAUM cases.
     
  4. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    If you want a 7mm and you're content with the 800 yd maximum kill range, then I would go with the 7mm Rem Mag, shooting 168 gr Berger VLDs, trying Hodgdon Retumbo powder.

    The 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm WSM will have sufficient teminal velocity and energy to kill those game out to the ~1000yd range. They'll kick less and barrel life will be extended compared to the larger case capacity cartridges you've mentioned.

    I killed a large bull caribou at 850 yds two falls ago with the 7mm RM - no problems. I was using 160gr Nosler ABs at that time. I'm shooting the Berger 168 VLDs now and consider them preferable for 600+ yard shots on game.

    If you want to stretch it much past 1000yds, then you might better go for one of the larger cased cartridges on your list in order to maintain sufficient terminal velocity/energy at those extended ranges.
     
  5. KQguy

    KQguy Well-Known Member

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    Personally,I would narow it down between the 7mmRem mag,and the 7mmWSM.I would give the nod to the 7mmWSM,because it is not a belted case.I know a belted case is not that big of a deal,but since they are nearly identical balistically,I would just go with the 7mmWSM.just my $.02
    BTW,I shoot a 7MMwsm and would not trade it for anything,great balistics,and very efficient as far as powder consumption goes.I shoot alot,so efficiency is important to me.
     
  6. Kevin

    Kevin Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion I would say that you are really only gaining Less wind drift with the larger cases. Realistically the 7mm Remington Mag, 7WSM or .284win even, will all reach out to the capability of most rangefinders in average conditions which I figure to be about 1200 yards.
     
  7. silvertip-co

    silvertip-co Well-Known Member

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    They are all the same. The diff being do you want to pay 24,34,44,54,or 87 dollars for 20 rounds of ammo.
     
  8. angus-5024

    angus-5024 Well-Known Member

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    I personally really like the 7mm Remington. Efficient, flat shooting, hard hitting. The only problem with it is that I no longer have one. IMO it is one of the most effective hunting rounds ever designed. In my books it is second only to the big .338's, and I say that only because in grizzly country I like more horsepower, and It never hurts to be overgunned.
     
  9. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I hunted a lot of years with the 7 RM and it's a great round, but although I have never shotone, I would go with the 7 WSM. The WSM will probably give you more barrel life than the RM - I burned my RM out in about a 1000 rounds. My loads may have been a little warm. There is a debate as to which cartridge is better ballisitically, but from what I've been reading from 7 WSM shooters, I think the edge goes to the WSM. Also, with the arival of RL17, you may get a significant boost in velocity. I was able to increase velocities in my 300 WSM by 200 fps with RL17 (over H4350). Shooting a 180 bullet 3200 fps out of a 300 WSM, with 24" factory barrel, is quite an achievement. I imagine RL17 could show real good results in the 7 WSM also.

    Which brings me to the next thought... The 300 WSM will reach as far as the 7 WSM with a little bigger bullet, which IMO, makes a diference when shooting elk at LR. It will likely have longer barrel life and you can get Norma brass in the 300 WSM.

    One last thought... the 7mm Dakota is something to consider, but the brass and dies are going to cost a little extra $$$. However, the Dakota cartride is probably a case that RL17 would do well in and I would not be surprised if it pushed a bullet as fast as a 7 RUM and who knows... maybe faster? The 7 Dakota would also shoot a heavier 180 gr bullet and heavier much better than the WSM.

    Some things to think about,

    -MR
     
  10. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    Great advice given so far by all. My recommendation would be to go with either the 7RM, 7WSm or the 300 RSAUM.
    I shoot a 7STW now, but the 7RM or the 7WSM to 1000yards are just as capable with the 168gr Berger's. You might want to do the 7 WSM on a long action, so there is no COAL issues in the magwell with the 168gr Berger's.
    I think the 300 RSAUM is a good candidate also. I like it over the 300WSM.
     
  11. blipelt

    blipelt Well-Known Member

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    7-300wsm would be my choice if I had it to do over again. I have a 7wsm 200 freebore long action designed for the longer high bc bullets. I like the idea of having the better brass available in the 7-300wsm. The long action with a center feed clip feeds flawlessly for the longer higher bc bullets, like trueblue stated before. I have a 1:8.6 Brux barrel that I use 168bergers. I am sure the 180's will do just as well, but I am building it's big brother(284 JAZZ) designed around wildcat's 200gr pills.


    Brent
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2009
  12. Alfred Crouch

    Alfred Crouch Well-Known Member

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    I have gotten some excellent points to consider. I am currently digging through my files for data on the SAUMs. Don't think I have ever reviewed data on those. The 300 sounds as if it is worth considering even though I started into this convinced I wanted a 7 MM. It is definitely not my intentions to have come up with an idea and then set about to find data to justify the idea. This is what makes your input so important. My mind is very open to all suggestions and I don't plan to rush into it. I have time. this is a very interesting process in which I can learn a lot. Thanks very much for all comments and input.

    My son in law has a HS Precision 300 WM that he is madly in love with. I love to go to the range with him. It is so much fun when you are with someone who is excited and enthusiastic about their guns.
     
  13. Forester

    Forester Well-Known Member

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    Some good reading on the 7mms: 7mm Cartridge Guide

    I am building a 7WSM on a long action Detachable mag Savage action a little bit at a time here. It will probably be the end of 2009 before it is shooting.
     
  14. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    I once owned a 7mm remington magnum in a 700 ADL. The belts used to give me fits, feeding through the action. If I ever get one belt behind the belt of the cartridge below it, it caused a double feed and a jam, then when the bolt was retracted, the top round would eject! Not fun in a hunting situation.

    I sold it for less than I care to mention.

    Now I've got a re-built 7wsm and its fantastic. Certainly the 26" barrel is appropriate - I can meet and slightly exceed the loading data in my nosler and hornady manuals.

    The winchester WSM action is actually a "medium" action. Longer than the model 70 short action, not quite as long as their "long" action. Its a wonderful marketing scheme they came up with - hype up the SHORT ACTION cartridge, but then sell rifles with a longer action!

    With a properly throated barrel, OAL is a non-issue (the factory barrel was throated too long). I had the 70 ultimate shadow which was a problem because of the pencil barrel longer throat and the flexy stock. Plus, it fouled like mad! Maybe the "classic" is better off the shelf.

    Now my wsm action wears a bedded "classic" stock and a Pac-Nor barrel, with a timney trigger - completely different gun!

    By the way, if you don't mind getting creative, the 7-300wsm is probably a better choice with Norma brass and a longer neck.