Determine if Barrel is "Shot" . . . ?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by lckytylr, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. lckytylr

    lckytylr Well-Known Member

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    Hello Everyone. I'm new here (first post). I'm just testing the waters of this LRH stuff.

    I have a USED Rem 700 SS 7mm RUM 26" with a brand new Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50.

    I'm wondering how I can tell if my used barrel is "shot" / "burnt out". I have used several of my father-in-law's rifles with new barrels of various calibers on the same exact platform and have been able to shoot 3" groups at 200 yds prone using a pack as a front rest, no rear rest (I know, not long range, not even close). Obviously my front and rear rest situation is going to be adjusted to start shooting further. My new rifle has a very nicely adjusted trigger, optics are great, and it feels very steady. I have always felt very confident in "calling my shots" with regards to trigger pull and breathing. I haven't had a chance to load up multiple loads yet to determine what load my rifle likes best, but the best group I could get at 200 yards was 6"!!!! This is TOTALLY unacceptable and not what I have always been capable of. With that said, I was shooting Remington Factory 140 gr. Core-Lokt PSP.

    Let's just assume that this particular load is the recipe that my gun despises the most . . . would a 6" group at 200 yards be within reason for the LEAST optimal load?

    . . . or is my barrel not performing as well as it should?

    It seems to me that even with a terrible load (even though it's "Factory") should shoot better than that.

    I do handload, but I don't want to waste undue time and money chasing a white elephant and loading for a barrel that can't be pleased.

    I just got a BRAND NEW 300 RUM barrel that I can swap out (I'm going to at some point this year).

    Thanks all.
     
  2. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    First of all, the 7 rum is a heck of a round, but it can also be troublesome accuracy wise and your barrel life may be under 1000 rounds even if you treat it with kit gloves. I'm rather nice to my rifles and my 7rum's accuracy started to fall off at 600 shots. You should have well defined rifling without an area at the origin(right in front where the bullet hits first) that looks like it's been hazed or is nearly flat( little or no rifling is bad here).
    That said, dump the rem factory load and load up some 140 nos a-bonds or sierra 140's with rl25 or retumbo and shoot them for accuracy(assuming you have a good throat and your chamber is good). If you want to go heavy use a well put together 175 and H50 bmg powder(or I 5010 if you can find any).

    I eventually traded my 7 rum for a lh 300 rum and I'm still using the brass in that rifle. I'm thinking of re-visiting the 7rum though as that rifle was simply the easiest to kill with I've seen at over 1/4 mile. I only got 4 kills on the rifle before I retired it but they were at 600, 700+(the next morning), 400 and 200. Three of the 4 were running/trotting animals and none required more than two shots. Two were in rather stiff cross winds too.
     

  3. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    Just dug up an old target shot before rl25 data came out for the 7rum. I was using the 140 sierra pro-hunter, 95 rl25(93.5 is current top load-- respect it please), rem brass, fed 215's. 3.650" oal. 5 shots at .825" at 100 yards off sand from a 700 bdl rem with a 6-18x nikon on top.
     
  4. lckytylr

    lckytylr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Lefty, VERY helpful. I'm hoping to get some time this weekend to load a little and maybe shoot I'll check the origin rifling when I get home.

    I like this place already.
     
  5. blipelt

    blipelt Well-Known Member

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    Not knowing much about you cleaning, reloading and such. I would give the barrel a good scrubbing with a ammonia based cleaner and iosso and see how much copper and carbon come out. Then look at reloading and what not.


    Brent
     
  6. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    +1 -- the 7 rum will out foul most other rounds just as fast as it'll out-run 'em. Use the good stuff and remove BOTH copper and carbon. I nearly filled the rifling on my 7rum once using too much copper cutter and not enough hoppes type carbon remover-- make sure she is visually clean. Patches lie sometimes.
     
  7. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I've tinkered with a couple "shot" out 7RUM barrels and all shot very well and had decent throats after a good cleaning, like has been said the carbon needs to be addressed in a serious manner! Try loading a heavier bullet also, I'm fond of the 175 GK in the 7RUM's.
     
  8. highridge1

    highridge1 Well-Known Member

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    A barrel is shot out as soon as you are not happy with the accuracy anymore,and it has been cleaned properly etc.
     
  9. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    the biggest problem here is he hasn't got anything to run against as it hasn't grouped from day 1 ownership. If it fell on it's face that's one thing, but it never was accurate from day one, as per the o.p..
    He's got to try something else, and whether it includes loads, cleaning, wrapping said rifle around a tree, etc. is for him to disseminate. Or he can put up the white flag and re-barrel. I hope he tries if the barrel looks good as the 7rum can be a heck of a round.
     
  10. lckytylr

    lckytylr Well-Known Member

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    Have no worries, I'm not going to give up on my 7 RUM barrel without a fight.

    Now, as for cleaning to remove both Carbon and Copper . . . any suggestions on solvents, brushes . . . etc?

    I have needed a new cleaning setup for a while now and this will spur me into action.
     
  11. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    I've used plenty of stuff, but I'd look at Barnes cr 10 for copper and Hoppes # 9 for carbon, with quite a few other choices doing well at pulling carbon. Get some good bronze brushes(closed loop end) and a one piece rod. A good bore guide is a serious plus here too.
     
  12. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    Boretech Eliminator!!

    Boretech Eliminator!!

    Boretech Eliminator!!

    Boretech Eliminator!!

    best i have found for removing carbon and copper.
     
  13. lckytylr

    lckytylr Well-Known Member

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    Soooo . . . . I spent an hour and a half Saturday night cleaning with Sweet's 7.62. Let me explain my process and perhaps someone can point out what I'm doing wrong.

    Step 1: Ran a dry wire brush down the bore 3 passes.

    Step 2: Ran a dry patch (on a lug)

    Step 3: Ran 1 pass of Sweet's 7.62 down and discarded at the end.

    Step 4: Ran 3 dry patches down and discarded at end.


    Repeat Steps 3 and 4 until I started getting noticeably clean patches . . . nearly clear.

    I finally decided that it was as good as it's going to get as the patches weren't getting any better.

    I decided to run a patch through with a protective chemical and call it good. Well Holy S$%T . . . my first wet patch was DIRTY. Very Black/Brown. I didn't expect this as the stuff i used is FP-10 Lubricant Elite. It says on the side that "It Cleans, Lubricates, and Protects". I figured something this generic couldn't possibly clean better than the notorious Sweet's 7.62.

    After this discovery, I cleaned with the FP-10 and dry patches until I got semi-clean patches, then completely dried the bore with patches and switched back to Sweet's for a few passes (all were clean). I switched back to the FP-10 and again . . . I noticed semi dirty patches. I repeated this procedure several times and finally got to a point where it didn't seem like I was getting any cleaner passes.

    So, what gives. What did I do wrong and what do I need to do going forward?
     
  14. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    Now for the really funky part; some calibers like the 7rum can basically "bake in" carbon and copper fouling. Some of the milder solvents( or copper specific) are not able to get all of it out without a serious fight. If I'm not mistaken, sweets is very good at pulling copper, somewhat like barnes is. You also have to go to a carbon specific solvent like hoppes or kroil to take out the baked in carbon. It's a bit like scouring the coating off of a cast iron. Leave her soaked overnight with a creeping oil like kroil and you'll get even more out when you take a bronze brush after it again. You have a fouled barrel, and if the throat is good, it should wake up after you finally get it clean.

    I never start with a dry brush(at least a bit of hoppes) as dry brushes can accelerate wear(using fouling to sand the bore) and this cal. already beats the hell out of the barrel; you don't need cleaning to add wear.