Deep cut Fluting on Barrels

[James Jones]

I have only seen and shot a carbon fiber wrapped barrel. the barrel was 1.35 at the breach taperd down to 1.25 at the muzzel the gun was a Rem 700LA , the whole rig weighed under 10lbs with scope and all. It shot great Sub 1/2" , it shot a 10 shot group in 2 min at 200yds that was under 1.5" . The owner of the gun said that he has shot 20 shot groups and had no change in impact. I guess thats a good thing I just can't see paying $700 for a barrel

 

[chris matthews]

Personally, I believe the weight should be trimmed off at the waistband- not the rifle!!!!

Doing five flutes, will have to measure and see how wide they are at 0.220" deep- gotta weigh 'em also, but I think it takes off a pound or so.....

 

[257speed]

Great point Chris, much easier and cheaper to take five pounds off ones butt, than a pound off a rifle

 

[James Jones]

So basicaly what you guys are saying is that because a guys wants his rifle as light as possible that he needs to loose weight ? what if one can't trim any more off his waist or butt , or what if just maybe a guy has a heart condidtion and evry ounce of extra weight counts when he has to pack that rig?
Pesonaly , I'd be willing to say that I'm in better physical shape than probably anybody else here. At 6'3" right now I'm weighing in at 285lbs at about 8% bodyfat withing the next 6 weeks I'll drop another 8-10lbs and and the body fat will be around 2-4% thats stage weight. I also train with the local SWAT team where we run at a fast *** pace 1.5 miles in full gear weapon and all the run has to be done in less than 10 min. I also do some competive powerlifting in the off season , I'd say that with a 500+lb bench and a 700+lb squat that carying a 15lb gun woulden't be a problem. But if I can get the same accuracy with a 10lb gun I'd much rather carry that

In short I guess what I'm saying is that just because a guy wants his rifle a light as possible doesen't meen that he "NEEDS" it as light as possible thats just what he "WANTS"

Anyway , so with Badger making alloy trigger guards and scope bases what is the weight differance between their steel ones and the new alloy ones. I would think that if you used an Alloy base rings and triggerguard that you could probably trim off a pound? What alloy is it their using?
Chris did you ever get a chance to play with that Aluminum/lithium alloy I sent you? I have been tinkering with a bit at work and personaly I don't care for how it cuts.

 

[chris matthews]

JD- You and I are the exception to the norm- most guys have a few extra pounds they could loose....nothing wrong with making a light rifle....but most guys need to quit whining about how heavy it is and get in better shape.
The aluminum stuff is 60% the weight of the steel.

I agree with you on the stuff you sent- don't like the way it machines and neither did Marty or his CNC shop.....

 

[James Jones]

Sorry about the ranting , I was a fat kid growing up till I got to jr high and got into sports real heavy and realized that it was alot easier to be mobile and quick if I was lighter and stronger thats what got me into dieting and weight training now its a major part of my life.

Anyhow thaks for all imput and sorry to Vic for deviating from his post.

 

[USSR]

While the overall reduction in the weight of the rifle is a nice benefit, IMHO the primary reason to flute a heavy target rifle barrel is to better balance the rifle.

Don

 

[James Jones]

My reason for fluting my next toy is gonna be to maintain a heavy proflie stiff barrel and reduce the weight some also to help with he cooling once the shot count gets high. I have couple 308's that are both in the 15lb range I'd like to make my next one a little lighter so it woun't be such a burdon to carry long distances not just for myself but for anybody else that may need to carry it and above all
Just because thats what I want
Most of my shooting probably 95% will be from either a
bi-pod or stable rest so ballance won't be a problem

 

[Jeff In TX]

[ QUOTE ]
I have only seen and shot a carbon fiber wrapped barrel. the barrel was 1.35 at the breach taperd down to 1.25 at the muzzel the gun was a Rem 700LA , the whole rig weighed under 10lbs with scope and all. It shot great Sub 1/2" , it shot a 10 shot group in 2 min at 200yds that was under 1.5" . The owner of the gun said that he has shot 20 shot groups and had no change in impact. I guess thats a good thing I just can't see paying $700 for a barrel

[/ QUOTE ]

JDJones,

I'm still against carbon fiber wrapped barrels, as they don't do everything they advertise.

Yes, they significantly reduce the weight of the barrel, however their biggest claim to fame is they dissipate heat faster. This is a truly false statement. Carbon is actually an insulator and most of these carbon fiber wrapped barrels trap heat in and not dissipate it as advertised.

It may feel cool to the touch on the outside, but tests have shown that the internal barrel temps to be scorching hot.

For a hunting rifle where few rounds are fired at anyone time, I think these carbon wrapped barrels would be a good choice if the price wasn't so steep. But, these barrels have a nasty habit of getting so hot during successive firing strings that the carbon wrap actually bubbles up. Some of the folks in the military that tested these barrels nick named them bubble wrapped barrels.

Also, the folks at the leading producer of these barrels have a very bad reputation at not supporting these barrels and the associated problems that come with them. There are quite a few on this site that have had bubble wrapped barrels or other problems and have horrible stories to tell about trying to get them fixed.

I have never owned one, but did watch one bubble up on the firing line at Storm Mountain Training Center back in the 2000 or 2001 time frame.

Now, Mike Rock at Rock Creek Barrels is offering a carbon wrapped barrel by Advanced Barrel Systems that is using a newer type of carbon wrapped technology. I have no information on there barrels or processes, but I do know Mike and he knows his s*!t better than most, so there's probably some good stuff going there.

As for lighting up a rifle to carry, I'm right there with you. I carried my 17.5 pound tactical rifle while moose hunting in Alaska last fall. Humping that rifle for miles a day on the tundra got old. That's why GAP is rebuilding it into their TIS rifle. There gonna shave off almost 7 lbs and that's a good thing.

Just my $0.02 worth on the subject!

 

[Pete Lincoln]

You know the biggest reason folks want fluted barrels? cos it looks cool. thats it.
When it come to weight reduction, the question that constantly pops into my mind is. " is it realy nessecary to try and get the very maximum velocity using the longest possible barrel"
You'd soon drop the weight of a 28" barrel by chopping it back to 26" and re crowning.
Me i like short barrels, i see no need for anything longer than 20" on a 308. my 30-06 has a 21.5" Border. Personaly i wouldn't want anything longer than a 24" on a hunting rifle, never mind what caliber.
Of course if a customer wants a 30" tube, then thats what i'll happily build. Buy i like short tubes. thats the best way to reduce weight.
I'd also go along with the idea of letting the barrel manufacturer do the fluting.Its the most cost effective and efficieng way to do it.
Pete

 

[heatseekins]

Here is my .02 cents (It's all I have left, I used the rest up earlier this week)

I have 2 Rock .308 M24 barrel blanks that are the same twist and length. One he fluted with 6 deep flutes and the other is not. This post got my curiosity so I weighed them
Fluted = 6.5lbs
Un-fluted= just slightly under 7.5lbs

"Does anybody know of an outfit that cuts deep wide flutes in barrels that would preserve its stiffness?"

There is no way to preserve all the stiffness by removing material in any way other than making it shorter.

The only reason I can see to flute a barrel is for looks. I personally like fat barrels and I like the looks of fluting so I have a few, but I don't do it for the weight. I am a firm believer that a gun should be built using the heaviest barrel you can that will still let you hit the weight and balance you like. You could spend the money toward a graphite McMillan stock and get more (or less depending on how you look at it for your money. If you're not sure you like fluting get the barrel contour that is .5-1 lb less and it will weigh close to the same.... Its just personal preference, so you're going to have to decide. One thing to ask your self is how far you want to be able to shoot and how long does your barrel need to be in order to have adequate velocity to get there. Shorter barrels are stiffer than longer ones, so if you're not going to need the extra speed get a shorter one.

On a side note
I should have a carbon fiber Rock barrel here shortly. I ordered a 26" M24 contour and specified the weight at 4lbs (regularly about 7.5lbs). I will be building a 300wm so we will see how it stands up…or if it bubbles up. I've got some whitetails that get bigger every year because the closest you can get to them is 1100yds. I wonder how they will like a 200gr Accubond???... This rifle will also be my main hunting rifle, so it's going to see a lot of use from Idaho to Alaska. My goal is for it to weigh around 8-9 lbs without a scope. I will be testing McMillan's M40A1-3 stock and im unsure what it will weigh. we will just have to wait and see.

Glen