computers vs dead reckoning

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by peterb, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. peterb

    peterb Active Member

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    Since I have had a good day, I am going to pick a fight :cool:.

    I notice that there is an ever increasing desire for most shooters to use Ballistic software, computers, wind speed meters and any other technology which helps the shooter to hit their mark.
    With the exception of the military and the Law enforcement bodies, I was under the impression recreatioanl shooting (hunting) was about one pitting oneself against the elements with the final outcome of the hunt resulting in a very rewarding kill using nothing but personal skill combined with ones own experience.
    So how can you possibly achieve the same satisfaction by using all the technology available ?
    What ever happened to " looks like about 700 yards and the wind is about 5 mph, so if I aim such and such, I should get that kill.
    Dare I say that I think many recreational shooters are so caught up in the available technology that is cleverly made available to them, that they actually miss the point of what they are really trying to achieve.

    Any takers ??

    Cheers,

    Pete.
     
  2. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    I think you are under the impression that the things YOU enjoy about hunting and shooting are the same things that others enjoy. You should shoot the way you want (and I won't bother you) and I'll shoot the way I want and will expect the same respect.

    AJ
     

  3. BillR

    BillR Well-Known Member

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    I was going to make this long post about how I have tried everything trying to push the envelope so to speak trying to make things harder and harder and still keep it human. Everything from Bows to Muzzle loaders (traditional rifles not inlines) Lever guns to regular style rifles and handguns and I keep trying to make it harder and harder. Just because I use a computer and all the other accessories does not make it any easier. Once you get past 800 yards things begin to get pretty intense and you can't make any mistakes. Some day I might find all this is boring too once it gets to easy and move onto something else but right now I'm on a long learning curve and getting better and better at it. Yes I use all this for hunting but my main use is to kill a prairie dog past 1500 yd's. And mainly because its a free country so far and I want to.
     
  4. ilscungilli

    ilscungilli Well-Known Member

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    The question you pose seems to present somewhat of a false choice. You say "...using nothing but personal skill combined with ones own experience.", however, you have drawn an arbitrary line in the sand with regards to "technology". One could argue (as bowhunters often do), that all rifle hunting is way too technologically advanced and displaced from "hunting". One the other hand, I would say that long range hunting is (IMHO), about taking the longest ethical shot that your skill, conditions, and equipment allows.

    Its sort of funny, since I started out deer hunting with recurve bows, and when compounds came out, a lot of people thought it would ruin the sport and turn it into a technology race. Compared to my Bear Takedown, a modern wheel bow is quite a contraption.
     
  5. peterb

    peterb Active Member

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    Well guys, thanks for your interesting return posts. I knew I would arc someone up somewhere. If offence was taken, I can guaruntee none was intended.
    You must admit though that all an animal has to defend itself is all that mother nature has given it while we use anything developed by anyone as an aid. I bet that is something you hadn't really thought about.

    As for bow hunting, I used to do a bit of that, but tried stalking a kangaroo in a heavy (and high ) cereal crop years ago and found I just couldn't handle the stress. Probably because I have been attacked by kangaroos twice - the second time resulted in hospitalisation which wasn't really great.

    Anyway, as you say, each to his own. Mind you I will be sticking to non computing type shooting, as for me, a hit is more satisfying with the knowledge that it was just me and not much else.
    I do agree though that out past 1000 yds is incredibly intense type shooting.
    Please enlighten me, what, and how big is a damn prairie dog ?

    Cheers,

    Pete.
     
  6. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    It's a small rodent that might weigh a pound if it's fat. Gives a target about 2"x4" as it peeks out of it's hole.

    AJ
     
  7. peterb

    peterb Active Member

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    Thanks AJ. Would it be safe to assume that it is otherwise known as a gopher ?

    Whatever it is, it sounds a bit like our Australian rabbit which is a real nuisance, but fun to shoot. They just sit out in the open - dumb succers !
    - getting a bit late down here, so catcha tomorrow -

    Cheers,

    Pete.:)
     
  8. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, close to gophers, but thinner and quicker. Here is a link to some pictures

    Pictures of Prairie Dogs


    AJ
     
  9. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Pete,

    No offense taken here mate. To each his own way to satisfaction :)

    A praire dog is different than what we call a gopher. Gophers are smaller and prairie dogs are about the size of small rabbbits. The Prairie dogs I am familiar with are probably a little larger than what AJ described.

    As far as... "that looks about like 700 yds and about 5 mph wind", I have never met a person yet that could consistantly guesstimate yardage correctly (+ or - 25 yds) past 300 yds, especially in uneven terrain when not all of the fore is visible. When I got a lazer range finder, I found out how poor a range guesstimater I really was. Borrow one sometime and chalenge yourself.

    If your skills are good enough to estimate range and bullet performance at 500 yds or better, for first shot accuracy, you are truely an amazing person. Otherwise, taking long shots equates to shooting and hoping, and if you are fairly good, by the second or third shot you will connect.

    I once mis-estimated a bow shot on a nice antelope buck by 7 yds (30 vs the actual 37) and the arrow went directly below the chest.

    So my satisfaction comes in learning the art and science of LR shooting, doing the load development, practicing and coming proficient and making a good shot.

    Regards,

    -MR
     
  10. peterb

    peterb Active Member

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    Thanks for the link AJ.
    Actually, if you whacked a pair of long ears on them, they wouldn't be that far removed from our rabbit.
    Nice to see you back Montana.
    You know me, no offence ever taken here - this is a great site and I throw things like this up not only to get a reaction, but you also get to see how other people from other locations think about the same issues.
    I did buy a laser rangefinder a couple of years ago to use on measuring fence lines would you believe. That is only accurate to 400 - 500 yards.
    However, I have been actually shooting in a range card for my 308 (I think I mentioned this before) and have found that I am now much better at estimating range than ever before. That was one of those side issues that I hadn't expected. (This exercise was done in the back paddocks on my farm, not on a range.)
    You are quite right though about estimating range, can be fickle at times. What has helped me a hell of a lot with improving my shooting techniques though, was a book I bought from the US of A called "The Ultimate Sniper." Not at all interested in shooting people obviously, but there are a lot of tecniques in there for range estimation, wind, topography, breathing and sighting that have been absolutely marvellous.
    Anyway, better go and do some work, not raining today.
    Cheers guys,

    Pete.
     
  11. dogdinger

    dogdinger Writers Guild

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    "As for bow hunting, I used to do a bit of that, but tried stalking a kangaroo in a heavy (and high ) cereal crop years ago and found I just couldn't handle the stress. Probably because I have been attacked by kangaroos twice - the second time resulted in hospitalisation which wasn't really great."


    JMO, but......i dont think you should be picking fights anywhere if cant whip a "roo" :D AJ