Case neck turner,suggestions please.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by johnalan, Mar 18, 2007.

  1. johnalan

    johnalan Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Hi Folks,im looking to buy my first Neck Turning tool.I was looking at a Sinclair or Wilson.Then i read a bit, was pointed towards K&M finally, after more reading i think i want a Don Nielsen system. Where can i get one. The U.K still sucks for supplies.Im doing .308 Win possibly .243 but i think it may be a bit overkill.Im using all Lapua brass,Cleaned primer pocketed ,Flash hole uniformed.I have also just re annealed some .308 after 6 firings.Does anyone else bother.? P.s none of my rifles are posh just primarily for hunting.Cz550 and Steyr SSG.
     
  2. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    I am in the same situation. I load for 22-250, 308, 30-06, 300 WSM and 325 WSM all factory rifles. I purchased a RCBS turner that attatches to the case trimmer because it was only an additional 30 dollars. I am most definately not satisfied with the results. This thing wrecks cases, is hard to use, and it isn't verry consistant. The cutter moves loose once in a while causeing a jam resluting in a wrecked case. Go with a more precise system then this one!
    I honestly cann't speak to the results of turning because I was primarily turning 30-06 and my barrel was shot out(I later found out).

    I have heard it is only criticle to turn if you want to use a compatition style die set that uses carbide inserts to adjust the tension you are putting on the bullet. Or if you have a rifle with a super low tollerance for the throught. I am just very anal about loading and try to do as much as I can to "perfect" my loads (I am by no means a perfect loader though lol!)
    hope this helps.
    Britz
     

  3. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,522
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    If you are using Lapua brass in factory barreled rifles a neck turner isn't necessary. Lapua brass is rather consistent to begin with and the slight improvement that you may be able to achieve in neck wall thickness will not be measurable in group size when shooting most factory rifles. Thinning the necks too much is likely to introduce problems, rather than eliminate them.

    IMO, forget the neck turner.
     
  4. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    It is a waste of time to turn Lapua cases.

    Enjoy them as they are.
     
  5. Andy W

    Andy W Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I would also agree that neck turning is a waste of time given your description of mostly hunting, unless you have a tight necked chamber and you have to turn. If you have to turn go with the K&M.
     
  6. neolithic hunter

    neolithic hunter Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    [ QUOTE ]
    It is a waste of time to turn Lapua cases.

    Enjoy them as they are.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    in the never ending search for consistancy neck turning is well worth its weight. it dosen't matter who make the case.
     
  7. Rooster 50

    Rooster 50 Member

    Messages:
    12
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Buy the Sinclair it works great and is easy to use. Just make sure you keep everything well lubed.

    As far as turning Lapua it sure won't hurt to skim it just enough to knock off the high spots, and yes even Lapua has them.


    besides it just a little anal retentive and it will make you feel better. Good luck and good shooting
     
  8. Chawlston

    Chawlston Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    It is a waste of time to turn Lapua cases.

    Enjoy them as they are.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Every piece of each caliber of Lapua brass is not perfectly or acceptably concentric. I have several thousand pieces and I haven't found any yet that I would just ingnore and use them in matches or hunting situations that I am involved in. If you are spending hard earned funds to shoot competitively or to push the envelope of your hunting abilities, getting the brass concentric is not a waste of time. If you applied that same principle while running through doors, you would tear up your shoulders on the door jambs!

    Simply put, there is more to benefit (improving skills and performance) by getting them concentric that there is to gain by ignoring the cases. If you take cases with zero runout and cases with .002" runout and shoot them at say 900 yards, you will see a drastic difference. On the other hand, if you are not pushing the envelope on range or have the need for extreme accuracy, ignore the case necks as it won't matter. Personally, I would not spend my time and money to travel to events and hunts with faulted ammo.

    James
     
  9. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    NH and Chawlston,

    I couldn't agree with you guys more. Lapua is NOT PERFECT! I have seen it be worse than american brass in neck wall thickness consistency, case head squarness, primer pocket uniformity and more. Heck, just today I squared the case heads on a whole batch of Lapua 220 russian brass and 100 of 100 had dome shaped heads that were not flat or square.

    And Norma is no better. Seen it vary a lot in neck wall thickness.

    The advantage of this foreign "holy" brass (meaning Lapua) is that it is so damn hard that the primer pockets will last a lot longer and the flashholes USUALLY are better with burrs but they still got 'em! But the foreign stuff is usually dimensionally better so maybe there is another small advantage there.

    No one on earth and I mean no one has had more experience turning necks than 7mmrhb and he'll tell you the same thing. He has turned over 11,000 pieces of brass to date of all kinds and calibers and all brass sucks. If it has to be perfect then it has to be made that way by hand.

    Will it help with a hunting gun? No doubt that banged up old Winchester brass with no tweaking can kill a deer. But how far? If you plan to hunt long range, you have to make your ammo capable of long range so everything helps in my opinion.

    For neck turners, I use a Sinclair as does 7mmrhb but we both wish we had K&M mandrels and cutters. Won't be long 'till we aquire some I'm sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  10. 7mmRHB

    7mmRHB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    338
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Johnalan, the Sinclair turning mandrels have problems with Q.C. It's an on going frustration to get mandrels that are small in the middle or bigger on one end or the other. Cut adjustments aren't as easy as the K+M either. --RHB
     
  11. 7mmRHB

    7mmRHB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    338
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    The 6br brass from Lapua is pretty hard to beat for uniform neck wall thickness. I think .0005" to .0007" is about average. Some lots are as little as .0002". But the case heads are a whole different story!! The only thing touching the bolt face is the rim of the primer pocket.

    The last three lots of Lapua 6.5-284 brass were worse in neck uniformity than any Rem. 300 RUM brass I've ever turned!! ( just under .003" Side to side ).GG and I agree that when someone calls Lapua brass GREAT brass, they actually mean that they can run super high preassure without the case failing or blowing primer pockets loose.

    I guess I just find it hard to shoot brass that I know has problems without trying to do something about those problems!!---RHB
     
  12. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    723
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Ok just a question regarding turning neck cases.-

    If you use a redding fl <die with a bushing and eliminate the expander, I guess you need to use a mandrel to get the "bumps" to the OD of the neck??

    And do you neck turn once and then a second time after firing the cases??

    I´ve used a Forster neck turner on 7rm cases, but it seems to be a little inconsistent.-
     
  13. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    308
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Alg,

    It's been my experience that a donut will form on the inside of the neck towards the bottom if you use the redding dies w/bushings. Since not all the neck is resized there ends up being two thicknesses. This eventually ends up on the inside of the case and then you have inconsistent neck tension which directly effects SD and ES. Get a k&m tool with the carbide cutter for your caliber. Once you take the donut out you only have to clean them up every once in a while since the neck gets thicker every time you fire.

    Read this ...

    http://www.6mmbr.com/JGcaseprep.html
     
  14. 7mmRHB

    7mmRHB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    338
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    alg, I always use a full length die with expander ball to prep cases for turning. Then the expander mandrel is used to get the right I.D for the turning mandrel.

    A bushing die will not size the entire neck as Cruizin mentioned, and the expander mandrel alone doesn't make the I.D. as uniform as is preferred.

    I don't turn the necks again after being fired once. Many guys do this, but it's usually their own brass for their own gun.Probably a practice for the most anal of the B.R. PPC guys. After I hand off the brass I turn, I generally don't see it again. After several firings the necks will become thicker and a little clean up turning would be best.
    I've never used a Forster turner so I can't comment on their ability to produce a consistent neck thickness.

    RHB