Can't get the copper fouling out

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by I SHOOT STUFF, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. I SHOOT STUFF

    I SHOOT STUFF Member

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    Nov 29, 2005
    Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    Breaking in my RUM, and can't get the stubborn copper out. What's the best way? I'm using Hopps Bench Rest 9, which says you can soak the barrel overnight, which I did, and still not out.

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  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    Sweets 7.62 or any amoina based cleaner, wipeout, coppermelt, JB. One or those should work. Do a search for barrel cleaning. Lots of stuff out there and many different opinons.
     

  3. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    JB bore paste will search and destroy ALL copper in your barrel. Use sparringly and use it with oil or it will slowly wear the lands down.
     
  4. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    For barrels that really hold onto fouling I have discovered that no single cleaning method works as well as alternating between at least 2 different methods.

    I'd suggest using Barnes CR-10 or a similar aggressive copper remover (always follow directions on the bottle) and then use a mechanical cleaner like USP bore paste. After the bore paste is removed put the CR-10 back in for 10 minutes to detect if copper is still present.

    If you want to go the easy route. Try using Wipe-Out bore foam. Using the Wipe-Out "Accelerator" first will really hasten the removal of stubborn copper. One thing that I have noticed with bore foams is that the foam settles onto the bottom half of the bore and does not clean stubborn copper off the top half as well as the bottom half unless the stuff is applied twice, once with the rifle left in the scope down position.
     
  5. graphite

    graphite Active Member

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    Bore Tech's "Eliminator" is barrel safe and removes copper better than anything I have ever used. I used to use Sweets during barrel break-ins, The Eliminator leaves it in the dust!
     
  6. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    get a foul out system, when ya get it clean, lap the barrel.
    RR
     
  7. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    The best copper remover I have seen and seen them all, Barnes, Eliminator, wipeout etc) and the best is Montana Extreme 50 BMG.

    Use a nylon brush and let it soak or 10-15 minutes. It is the probably one of the most common used by LR BR guys and they use borescopes to check results.

    Second after you get it clean, buy a $28.95 David Tubbs Final Finish kit and use it. It has bullets with a varying lapping compound on them. Note, the kit calls for firing 10 of each grit, but I normally only fire 5 and it seems to work quite well.

    Go to www.6mmbr.com and read their blog, they just ran an article on this very subject.

    The other problem you have, is carbon buildup in the throat and BMG will also remove that.

    BH
     
  8. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    Try Gunslick foam bore cleaner. One 30min application should do it. It is the best stuff I have ever used and will not harm your barrel like some mentioned.
     
  9. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    I have had Wipeout easily remove copper that Montana Extreme 50-bmg (fresh, recently opened) Would NOT...even with brushing.

    If you have some time, a wipeout soak WILL REMOVE ALL THE COPPER, if time is short, and you dont mind the nasty smell, 50BMG blend and Coppermelt will work as well.

    YMMV,
    JB
     
  10. kraky2

    kraky2 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 6, 2005
    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    I've had really good luck with wipeout. I had a "problem" gun that I took to the gunsmith for a borescope check. He said the barrel was "squeaky clean" and then found a deep tooling mark about 1/2" from the end of the barrel that had been causing my 300 wbyUL to be a pain in the arse ever since I got it....hopefully we have the problem cornered now!!
     
  11. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Nov 10, 2005
    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    This is the best system I have ever used period!!!!!! I hate copper--clean is always better!!! Verified with the borescope!!

    S.G. & Y. BARREL BREAK-IN & CLEANING



    Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new gun or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking-in that new barrel for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don’t use that, brush, don’t brush...what’s a person to do??

    At S.G. &Y. Precision, we have a unique opportunity to inspect many barrels on a daily basis with our video borescope. Consequently, we see the results of a variety of break-in as well as cleaning procedures, and most of them leave the rifle owners with their mouth agape when they see the fruits of their misinformed labor on our bore scopes color monitor. We have seen practically new barrels ruined with less than a hundred rounds shot through them by some of the crazy and sometimes humorous break-in methods employed. Anyway here goes for what it’s worth.



    A. Bore guides:

    If you don’t have one, get one! Without a good bore guide you are just wasting your time trying to break-in a barrel or cleaning it for that matter. More barrels are destroyed or severely damaged and life shortened by cleaning without a proper bore guide than by shooting. There are many types and brands of bore guides available on the market and range in price from $5.00 to $50.00. The only one we recommend is the Lucas two-piece bore guide. They are the best insurance you can buy for that new barrel. All other bore guides in my opinion are only good for one thing, keeping the solvents out of the trigger and action.



    B. Solvents:

    There are three solvents we recommend they are as follows:



    1) SWEETS 7.62

    Sweets is used in our in our cleaning procedures as a bore lubricant prior to pushing the brush through the barrel. Sweets is composed of mostly large soap molecules similar to household dishwashing detergents. Because of the lubricity provided by the soap in the sweets it allows the brush to easily slide through the bore on its first pass. Not to mention removing all of the loose powder and carbon residue left in the barrel prior to cleaning.



    Sweets can also be used in extreme cases of copper fouling. The procedure in this worst case scenario is as follows.

    A) Brush the barrel with Sweets (Kiss brush good-bye).

    B) Let bore soak 5 to 10 minutes (No Longer on Chrome Molly Barrels. Sweets and CM don’t get along very well together for very long).

    C) Now soak a patch with HYDROGEN PEROXCIDE and very, very slowly push it through the bore. A chemical reaction will take place between the Ammonia in the Sweets and the Hydrogen Peroxide causing all copper to go into suspension as the reaction takes place. The muzzle of your rifle will look as if it has rabies as the patch slowly nears the crown and you see all of the foaming reaction that is taking place. The blue green colors you see as the patch exits the barrel will amaze you.

    D) Inspect the bore after you patch it out with Butches, by placing a Q-Tip just inside the crown. This will light up the bore and allow you to check for any remaining copper. If there are still traces of copper a second application will usually finish the job.

    E) At this point you should clean the barrel a described below. If the barrels is chrome molly, we recommend that it be put up using SPEEDY’S FORMULA also described below. The black powder solvent portion of the formula will protect the bore from any rusting or pitting as it does black powder flintlocks or cap & ball long rifles.





    2) BUTCHES BORE SHINE

    Through out the years we have tried every type of solvent there is known to man and then some you don’t even want to hear about. But none have ever done as good a job as Butches Bore Shine. Used on a regular basis Butches will keep even the largest overbore barrel as clean as the day it was chambered.



    3) SPEEDY’S FORMULA

    The Speedy Formula is used for the protection of the bore when putting a firearm up for the season or prolonged storage. For those of you poor souls that do not have Butches Bore Shine available to them this solvent is a very good second choice. This was the best we had found up to the advent of Butches.



    SPEEDY’S FORMULA is made up as follows:

    Mix 2/3 rd.s. Hoppes No. 9 Plus Black Powder Solvent with 1/3rd. Regular Hoppes No. 9 Nitro Solvent. Let this mixture set overnight and it will form a sort of gel that adheres very well to the brush and cuts powder fouling to a minimum.





    C. Procedure for “Break-in”:

    Although we at S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles feel an extensive break-in procedure is necessary for the custom barreled rifle we build, since that all have a lapped finish in them. The procedure probably has some merit when applied to a factory barreled rifle that has an as machined finish from the factory and no lapped bore surface at all.

    Custom barrels are lapped to impart a finish to the bore that will produce as little copper fouling as possible through out the length of the barrel.

    Before firing that first shot, clean the barrel as if it had been shot by following these simple steps.



    Step 1)

    Before firing that first round through the barrel. Clean the barrel as if it had been shot. Then follow these simple steps.



    Insert Lucas bore guide into receiver and chamber. If you don’t have one, stop here and get one! If not, just shoot your gun and forget trying to take any care of your barrel at all. If you do have one, proceed, and give yourself one “At-A-Boy” for being astute enough to have purchased the proper tools for the job.



    NOTE: One “Aw-” wipes out all “At-A-Boys”.



    Step 2)

    Run one wet patch of Sweets through the bore and let soak for approximately 30 seconds. Do not patch this out. Remember this is going to serve as our lubricant for the brush as we push it down the bore for the first time. Try this dry and you will see why we apply the Sweets. The sound coming from your barrel as you run a dry brush through it resembles that on stepping on a cat’s tail while wearing your wife’s high heel shoes. Not a pretty picture (unless you’ve shaved your legs recently).



    Step 3)

    Next, run the brush through the lubricated barrel only enough to expose the entire brush as it exits the muzzle. Yes, I know that you still have 12 more inches of cleaning rod you could push out the end of your barrel but we want to protect that new crown. Also, if that rod hangs out that far, you will eventually start wearing down the rifling at the crown from about 4 to 7 o’clock. This is very bad “JU-JU” for accuracy. Plus we get to make an extra $40 when you need to re-crown the puppy. OK, back to our Step 3. Once the brush is exposed, saturate it well with our Butches Bore Shine or Speedy’s Formula and SLOWLY run the brush through the bore 10 complete back and forth passes while keeping the rod as straight as possible. This is where the Lucas bore guide really pays for itself! Remember, the key word is slowly. We are not trying to break any land speed records today. Let this sit a minute or two and proceed to the next step.



    Step 4)

    After you have let the barrel soak for a few moments, saturate a patch with the Butches Bore Shine or Speedy’s Formula and pass it through the bore. Follow this with 2 dry patches and then with a chamber mop or patch wrapped around a brush on a short cleaning rod, dry the chamber with Brake Kleen or lighter fluid.



    NOTE: We wrote “DRY THE CHAMBER” not the bore of the barrel.



    Next, gently wipe the crown off with a soft cloth and lube your bolt (let’s not gall the lugs just yet). Now, you’re ready to shoot your first shot.



    Then follow the schedule below to complete your barrel break-in.



    1. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 1 shot.



    2. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 5 shots.



    3. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 shots.



    4. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 to 15 shots and clean again.





    D) Additional Cleaning Tips:



    1. Each time you clean your rifle, you may wish follow the last dry patch through the bore with a patch soaked with LOCK-EEZ if the bore felt a bit too dry as you passed that last patch through it prior to drying the chamber. This is a graphite powder suspended in a quick evaporating carrier that coats the bore slightly before passing that first round through a completely dry bore. LOCK-EZZ is available at S.G. & Y. Precision Products and most NAPA stores around the country.



    2. We are always asked about powder fouling and how to remove it. The only product that we have seen that really does a good job on powder fouling, especially on the carbon ring that forms just ahead of where the neck ends in the chamber, is IOSSO Bore Paste. This is used with an IOSSO BLUE NYLON bristle brush and worked slowly in the neck and throat areas, then slowly down the entire bore. Follow this up with a few wet patches of Butches Bore Shine. Then patch out the bore as if you had brushed as usual, and you’re again ready to shoot.



    E. Follow the outline above and make it your regular cleaning program and I promise that your barrels will deliver their greatest potential accuracy and extend their life without a lot of grief and hours of wondering if they are clean.





    Good Shooting,



    Speedy Gonzalez



    S.G. & Y. PRECISION RIFLES, LLC

    602 DOUGLAS DR.

    ROANOKE, TEXAS 76262

    www.sgyrifles.com

    Gun Shop: 817-430-0597

    Retail Store: 817-430-0206 ask for JD Sims ( Bore Guides ect.)

    Email:

    speedygonzalez@sgyrifles.com
     
  12. xring77

    xring77 Member

    Messages:
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    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    Hi, With really rough bores, I use 4 / 0 steel wool (finest grade made) in place of a patch and cycle the rod about 20 times. It removes all burrs and polishes the bore. I've used the steel wool dry and with Breakfree. I have not found it adversley affecting accuracy but makes shooting and cleaning much easier.
     
  13. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,270
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    Jun 12, 2007
    Re: Can\'t get the copper fouling out

    Boss hoss ,

    Butches Bore shine is Identical to GM TEC( general motors top engine cleaner ) and is les than half the price . I don't expect you to accept my word on but if you use ths e Butches then read the label the go to a GM dealer and read the label on the GM TEC.

    We have a lot of things that we can't avoid paying top dollar for but we should' nt have to pay for the nos for a concoction that is a
    carbon copy ( pun intended ) of a readily available product that has been around much longer.

    Jim B.