Can I feed 105 vlds through a 243 rem 700 sa?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by hmbleservant, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. hmbleservant

    hmbleservant Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so I know that you can if you seat them far enough in the casing, but do you give up a lot of capacity or is it reasonable/practical? I will have a barrel chambered and installed so I dont have to worry about dstance to lands....except....my next question.....if I back the chamber in order to seat vlds to lands at mag length then can I still shoot factory loads safely?

    im trying to figure out if its practical to have a semi custom 243 built that can handle and feed 105 grain vlds and amaxs from mag and still handle factory loads.
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Any issues here begin with the magazine.

    If you want a magazine, then you should try longest factory and longest dummy round in VLD through it. It's no good to get bullet bearing into donut area of necks(at shoulder). This adds a bunch of variance to neck tension, increasing velocity variances.
    Many of us bypass any magazine with conversion to single shot. A gunsmith can install a 'single shot follower' or 'bob sled' to do this with a factory action.
    Custom actions can be had with longer aftermarket magazines.

    I either buy or convert every action as single shot, and it's not a handicap, but a strength.
     

  3. hmbleservant

    hmbleservant Well-Known Member

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    Ok...good to know mike. Its very important to me to be able to feed from a magazine (preferably a blind/flush magazine). Which custom actions do you do you suggest for this build? I am willing to go with custom action in order to get everything I am asking for this particular philosophy of use.
     
  4. JesseJames

    JesseJames Active Member

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    You could use a Wyatts extended magazine box. That will let the OAL of your round be almost 2.990". I am having a 6mm SLR (glorified 243) built right now with a short action using this because I didn't want to go to a detachable magazine. Should work well with the 105 VLDs. Jesse.
     
  5. CPGfan

    CPGfan Well-Known Member

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    What he said....... It'll work great
     
  6. markb317

    markb317 Well-Known Member

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    I am shooting Berger 105 VLDs and Hybrids in my Savage model 11 .243 with A.I.C. mags. with O.A.L. at 2.801" at 3160 ft/sec. and they feed smooth. It has a 28" C.B.I. barrel and will shoot through 30 caliber holes at 100 yards.
    This is about the longest OAL you can shoot in factory box mags.
     
  7. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    MikeCR,

    Donut on a factory unmodified 243 case? Seems unlikely to me.

    ---------------------

    As for fitting and feeding from magazine. Either seat deeply or get a wyatts mag box. You won't loose that much velocity with them deep seated. I'd give it a try.

    If you do get the Wyatt's extended magazine you can still shoot factory ammo safely. Don't know if you will have any feeding issues from the longer magazine. Not sure if you realize the bolt stop will have to be altered so the bolt can be retracted further rearward. Also some metal will have to be removed from the front portion of the receiver's mag box recess to accommodate this longer mag box. Check out Wyatt's website to see the details: WYATT'S OUTDOOR, INC.


    The issue with the VLDs is whether or not they will shoot accurately with a jump to the lands. If you cannot get them to shoot you could switch to the 105 match target hybrids which are not as sensitive to seating depth. I am jumping them .065" in my 6mm-284 and they shoot very accurately.

    Not sure which VLDs you are using, hunting or target. If you are using the hunting version you may question using the hybrid target bullet for hunting. I shot a coues wt at 509 yds this year with the 6mm-284 and the 105 hybrid and it worked fine. Velocity impact just under 2800 fps. In fact it was far more devastating than the 115 VLDs that I shot several deer from a 257 weatherby at higher velocities.

    Let us know how things turn out
     
  8. joeycoates

    joeycoates Well-Known Member

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    I can actually give you an answer from my experience with my .243 Rem 700 VLS. I tried the Berger 105 VLD's and they would not work for me unless I wanted to use them as single loaders. The jump was too far when seated to fit the mag box and I could not get them to shoot out of my particular rifle.

    The 105gr A-Max's though have a different profile and they work fine. I have them set up to jump .020 and over 43.5gr of RL-22 they will shoot 1/4 MOA pretty consistently. And there is no issue with fitting in the mag at all.
     
  9. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    All brass tapers in thickness from webs to mouths.
    So it is thicker in the neck shoulder area, than the rest of the neck, until turned.
    This causes seating force to increase as bearing enters thicker neck area, especially if necks are FL sized, which affects seating distance consistency. Bullet grip increases with bearing seated there. Higher tension = higher tension variance. Clearance is reduced with bullets seated there, which may or may not be an issue depending on chamber.

    There is nothing good in seating bearing too deep. Only bad.
     
  10. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    I understand your explanation. I agree that neck tension does make a difference in accuracy and inconsistent tensions with the same handloads could cause accuracy issues.

    Your description is not the donut as I know it. I was thinking of the donut that I had read mentioned on several occasions in Precision Shooting and on Accurate Shooting's website. There is an ring of on the inside just above the shoulder where it meets the neck. It won't allow the bullet to pass that spot without some serious force. This is not what you describe so I made a comment.

    You are describing a variance in neck wall thickness near the shoulder neck junction not a major obstruction. What you are saying makes sense BUT I would venture to say most loaded ammo especially factory stuff is loaded with the bullet's bearing surface below the shoulder/neck junction. I haven't heard of this being an issue before and I have been reading the technical loading articles for decades.
     
  11. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure if you measure you'll find that most ammo does not actually have bullet bearing seated into neck shoulder junction. You really gotta go out of your way to do this.
    If you FL size new necks, and check with pin gages, you'll see a pin stop at the junction.

    Thicker brass nearest the junction is technically a donut, and new brass does come with it.
    Gun writers may refer to donuts only as thickness that has become a 'problem'.
    Well, If you FL size necks and deep seat, or if your chamber neck is fairly tight, it can be a problem even before contributing further to it's growth(by upsizing necks, or rolling brass into the junction with FL sizing).

    The only way to remove either inherent or formed donuts, is turning or reaming.
    But it's not a problem -until it is.
     
  12. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    Your explanation makes sense. It exists but may not be an issue till it becomes one.

    I still argue that that unaltered (necked up or down) brass with bullets seated deeply is not a problem. The 284 win and 300 win mag come to mind and they have bullet buried into the case.

    I will say that you have me thinking about the variances of brass thickness. Now that I am aware I will look at all my brass and loads to see if there is any sort of anomaly that might be worth addressing.
     
  13. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    It's worth watching as you pick up new lots of brass, performing seating tests, or filling out reamer prints.
    Anomolies here contribute to flyers.