Richard, most folks, both on and off the internet, don't know why a batch of bullets that are identical in weight and shape all fired at the exact same muzzle velocity from a rifle or barreled action clamped in a machine rest won't follow the same path to the target and all end up in the same bullet size hole.
Bullet Sorting
- Thread starter barnesuser28
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Richard, My buddy that is a highly competitive bench shooter at 1000, sorts. Into about 3 batches.And it seem like that for other areas also. He practices early in the morning in near perfect conditions, or doesnt test loads. His best 5 shot group at 1000 was under 1.2 slightly. He shoots Penn. rules and for that they dont get to shoot until 9 am.Drives him nuts,because he has to fight the wind. He has won with much larger groups due to range conditions. He told me'' If my gun shot like that , normally,I WOULD HAVE CUT IT UP WITH A HACKSAW" He points his bullets, and seats by pounds of pressure required and a few other tricks I am sworn to ...?He has practice loads, competition, and stuff that he hopes will set a record.
rscott5028
Well-Known Member
If your point is that it takes a whole lot of effort to eek out that last bit of accuracy, then we're in agreement. Otherwise, I'm not sure I got your point although it's interesting stuff and if you ever get cross with him, I'd love to hear about all of those little extra tricks.
Regardless, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that your buddy probably doesn't start with Barnes bullets for that particular game as is the case with the OP.
thanks,
richard
rscott5028
Well-Known Member
Like I mentioned.Seats by pounds of pressure, that is sorted into groupsSo this group that group, very few make the cut
My son wants to compete and he's got a shoot coming up in a couple of weeks.
So, I'm trying to get more detailed oriented in that direction. But, I've got a ways to go.
Going by his paper targets this weekend, 100 out of 100 at 500yds would've killed a deer in its tracks including cold bore and fouling shots. Unfortunately, I suspect there will be many experienced competitors on hand and he probably won't even get a smell.
He shoots some great groups like the one below. But, he's got to figure out how he's going to do sighters and spot for himself in order to get POA=POI. Otherwise, he'll end up with a goose egg.
But, it should be fun and hopefully we'll learn a few things along the way.
-- richard
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Interesting, but not impressive. All his other groups were larger. The accuracy he can count on all the time is the size of his largest group. But maybe his largest one's so big he doesn't want to remember nor talk about it. Like all the benchrest records, it's just statistical luck. All the others are larger. Should he shoot several hundred 5-shot groups, one of 'em may well be only .6 inch.
I've put 5 consecutive shots into about an inch at 1000 with aperture sights laying on my belly slung up prone. But there's no way I'm gonna claim that rifle and its ammo shoots 1/10th MOA at 1000. They're about a 6/10ths MOA combination at that range. The long range benchrest rifles are not any better; check the size of the largest group of several comprising an aggregate record, if you can find out how really big it is.
Like the young ballistics engineer at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant said after looking at a 200+ shot 600 yard group of 7.62 NATO match ammo: "Wow, look at all those half-inch 5-shot groups!!!" His seasoned mentor replied saying: "Yes, they look great. Too bad they're not all centered at the same place atop one another."
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Bart, I get what you are saying.What I am saying is that his rifle shoots better than what conditions allow,wind,mirage,and the things you are aware of.He has stacks of targets in the 2'' + range.He is also current Penn. rules light gun world record holder for 6 and 10 agg group size, his mentor is current holder of 6 and 10 agg score.
All rifles shoot better than conditions allow; that's been the way of life since rifled barrels. It's those darned conditions that open up groups that start out from the muzzle where they're all 0 (yes, zero) MOA.
What's the agg. record target sizes he's got? Tell me something meaningful. Otherwise, I may assume they're a foot or two in size.
His 6 agg. is 4.88,and 10 agg. is 5.89. He has shot 9-100's since '09 for hall of fame points, Think 10 ring is 7'', not sure because I copied target for practice from him? I am not a bench shooter, but admire guys like yourself that have dedicated a lot of time to the pursuit and show what can be done. I shot on our local pistol team and was part of a state winning team, my long range is on 6pt. bulls. Oh they both shoot 6mmdashers
Which means the largest group for the 6 agg's about 6 inches and for the 10 agg about 7 inches; maybe larger. He's got a .7 MOA rifle and ammo setup that once in a while shoots a small group around 2 inches or a little less. That's what long range shoulder fired rifles used in prone matches have been doing since the late 1960's without any case prep and sorting bullets in any way. But so fired off ones shoulder, they do well to keep all shots inside a 15-inch circle.
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