Brass $$$

[4xforfun]

I have been contomplating a new build....As always, price has to have some boundries.. I keep hearing about how expensive the 338 Lapua brass is. I figured I would just go with the 338-378 Wby....little more HP and cheaper brass. HP..yes...Cheaper...NO!!!!! looks like the WBY brass is bumping $3.00 a case. .50 MORE than the Lapua brass...and probably not as good.

Looks like if I pull the trigger on this deal it will be the Lapua!! Or the Lapua improved.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

As always you get what you pay for. All those big trophies never asked me what brass I used but they probably figured it was pretty good because they are dead. If you want the best you must pay for it. If you can't afford it then you must accept less. That simple.

 

[mike33]

So if you had 100 pieces of brass your changing your mind for $50.00? Im not being a smart *** but if $50.00 matters i wouldnt be playing the lr game or building a custom rig.
mike

 

[Broz]

I have owned both, shot both and reloaded both. The wby is only superior by velocity. The Lapua has better brass hands down!!! And my 338 LM is more accurate than my 338-378 was too. If you feel you need the velocity go WBY but expect to get 5 firings from your brass maybe a few more if you load it down to Lapua speeds. If you go Lapua and anneal you can get 15 firings at with max loads and 300 gr bullets, and still have over 1000 lbs of energy at a mile. Veocity is nice but sometimes not all it is cracked up to be. This is my experience.

Jeff gun)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[sp6x6]

Brass for my Norma is $173/100. 338 I would like a TRG some time for a rock buster rig gun, shoot it out and do a LAI.But I can tell as a bench shooter your spoiled by those customs

 

[4xforfun]

So if you had 100 pieces of brass your changing your mind for $50.00? Im not being a smart *** but if $50.00 matters i wouldnt be playing the lr game or building a custom rig.
mike

Ya...$50.00 for the buy....but I here people saying they get eleventeen firings out of the Lapua brass, and omly two or three out of the WBY.

SO what does THAT do to your $50.00 figure??lightbulb

 

[dig]

Weatherby/Norma brass is excellent, in my opinion as good as Lapua and will last well, of course less then 338 Lapua as the lapua is a lesser cartridge. Shop around check other forums for sales, find out who is shooting one at your range. Most hunters are not reloaders and discard the brass. Ask you local store who is buying and make them an offer on the brass. Normally you can find it in small batches hear and there and good news it's either Weatherby or Norma headstamp and consistant, not 10 brands like every other cartridge. I found a source in my club that gives me 20-40 or so pieces when he shoots from the Weatherby factory loads he buys. I started stock piling even before I got the rifle. I certainly have purchased new at Midway and dont get crazy chasing but its out there, just ask. Fifty dollars more amortized over several reloadings is really the least expensive part of the equation. This sport is not cheap but of course we all like a bargain and to stockpile componantes.

 

[Broz]

I agree the initial cost of the brass should not be the deciding factor for this build. As far as brass quality, if you want your brass perfect you will do less prep to the Lapua brass. Neck thickness, primer cockets , flash holes all will be more consistant on Lapua brass. I have had new 30-378 and 338-378 brass that needed primer pockets reamed before a primer would go in consistantly. Not all, but some, but don't worry, after the first firing it will be looser and this is the area WBY brass will fail first. My 338 Lapua brass with 15 loadings on all the primers come out wih a "POP" and I seat with a hand primer tool and they all go back in with the same pressure. That impresses me.

But still,,, this should not be the deciding factor either. It IS about velocity! Do you want the exta 200 FPS with a 300 gr bullet? Velocity is great, but probably not necessary to fill your needs with a .338. Are you going to take game past 1500 yards? I still have 1427 lbs of energy at 1500 with my 338 LM. Are you going to target shoot past 1900 yards? I am still super-sonic at 1900 with my 338 LM.

Here is a neat calculator to figure the cost per round for each very easily.

Handloading Cost Calculator

Know that the velocity comes at a higher price than the brass. Barrel life will be shorter with the 338-378. You will be using 10 to 15 gr more powder with each firing.

The velocity is nice, you will have less drop and you will have less drift. The drift is the most important to me. But understand they both can be dialed for and when they both connect, that animal will not know the difference in 200 FPS. And I doubt any target will either.

Figure your total cost including barrels, gun smith fees, powder and brass over the life of a barrel and look at cost per shot. Then decide which you can afford to shoot the most. The amount of time spent behind the rifle will will pay off more than the gained velocity.

For all of the above I am happy with my 338 Lapua.

Jeff

 

[sp6x6]

Broz, If I am not mistaken, 4xforfun is 2011 1000 IBS CHAMP.I shoot w/ 2 buddies up here that are 1000 bench. They sound like him, the one is trying to save his world record barrel, and only shoots his best bullets out of it, his mentor just kicked his but and shot 2- world records this season, 6agg and 10 agg. Im guessing they know each other, maybe shooting different class?My friend on 6mm dasher, think he is also. These guys know wind unreal for shooting those small bullet. and my friend a 1500 yrd, shot is well within reason with his 338 LAI. Which he thinks is junk because it is built on Mark V. These guys get rel spoiled shooting there hybird customs, my friends is a alum. action, to make weight class.And there annal about all shooting pieces of the puzzle. They also do things that I have never heard of in reloading, specific to bench.

 

[4xforfun]

Broz,

You are right. I probably won't let the cost of brass be the deciding factor in the build. It's just that I here SO MUCH about the cost of the Lapua brass, which I consider to be superior brass....and NOBODY complains about the cost of the big Norma cases, which, as it sounds, is no where as near as strong.

I guess that it was late when I had that particular epiphany...I had a little chuckle, and posted. I guess I was tired!!

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Speed kills and accuracy is in the rifle and not the cartridge. If you are looking to hunt long range look at your odds. Say at 1200 yards you shoot a 9" group. You are in a 15" kill zone for say 12 yards as the bullet drops through it. You are severely limited on making a hit. Say 200 fps more velocity keeps you in the kill zone 4 more yards to 16 yards. Now considering your group size and all other factors at that range like elevation, angle and atmospheric conditions you have a slim chance of making that kill repeatedly. The 200 fps going from 12 yards to 16 through the kill zone gives you precious inches and a 25% better chance of making that kill with slim odds to begin with.

The rifle is accurate not the cartridge, brass is not in the equation to make this shot, it purely comes down to velocity and accuracy. I go with the best odds to make any shot in a hunting situation. Velocity is a critical part of that and 200 fps is important to give you more time through the kill zone. Many cartridges can make the shot. But which one gives you the best odds of making the shot is the question.

Some guys wonder why some hunters just seem to take far more than their share of nice trophies. Some get very jealous and smart ones start trying to figure that out. Always put yourself in the best area possible to produce a nice animal with equipment that gives you the best odds of making the shot when the opportunity comes. The cost of my brass and bullets is so negligible in the equation it is not even a consideration. The only consideration for me is what will perform best within the weight limitations I have on a weapon.

Now if a guy wants mostly a target rifle to shoot a lot then parameters change. As far as barrel life I still hunt with the first 338-378 wby I built in the 80's. Barrel life is excellent with the 338-378 but that is not a parameter either. When I get a shot at that trophy I never think about how much barrel life I have remaining. Again, the only thing that matters if you want to be the most succesful hunter you can be is having the best weapon in your hands with the best capability and odds of making any shot you are presented with. All that other crap just doesn't matter at all when it comes down to one chance at that B&C animal.

Just to finish up:

If you are looking at long range hunting to 1000 plus yards the two most important choices to make is be sure you get a 338 or 375 caliber. Those two calibers give you the best odds of killing what you are shooting at in a rifle weight that is tolerable. Then you want the cartridge that gives you the most velocity in the weight range of a weapon you can carry and actually hunt hard with all day. Remember the rifle is accurate and not the cartridge.

 

[4xforfun]

Speed kills and accuracy is in the rifle and not the cartridge. If you are looking to hunt long range look at your odds. Say at 1200 yards you shoot a 9" group. You are in a 15" kill zone for say 12 yards as the bullet drops through it. You are severely limited on making a hit. Say 200 fps more velocity keeps you in the kill zone 4 more yards to 16 yards. Now considering your group size and all other factors at that range like elevation, angle and atmospheric conditions you have a slim chance of making that kill repeatedly. The 200 fps going from 12 yards to 16 through the kill zone gives you precious inches and a 25% better chance of making that kill with slim odds to begin with.

The rifle is accurate not the cartridge, brass is not in the equation to make this shot, it purely comes down to velocity and accuracy. I go with the best odds to make any shot in a hunting situation. Velocity is a critical part of that and 200 fps is important to give you more time through the kill zone. Many cartridges can make the shot. But which one gives you the best odds of making the shot is the question.

Some guys wonder why some hunters just seem to take far more than their share of nice trophies. Some get very jealous and smart ones start trying to figure that out. Always put yourself in the best area possible to produce a nice animal with equipment that gives you the best odds of making the shot when the opportunity comes. The cost of my brass and bullets is so negligible in the equation it is not even a consideration. The only consideration for me is what will perform best within the weight limitations I have on a weapon.

Now if a guy wants mostly a target rifle to shoot a lot then parameters change. As far as barrel life I still hunt with the first 338-378 wby I built in the 80's. Barrel life is excellent with the 338-378 but that is not a parameter either. When I get a shot at that trophy I never think about how much barrel life I have remaining. Again, the only thing that matters if you want to be the most succesful hunter you can be is having the best weapon in your hands with the best capability and odds of making any shot you are presented with. All that other crap just doesn't matter at all when it comes down to one chance at that B&C animal.

Just to finish up:

If you are looking at long range hunting to 1000 plus yards the two most important choices to make is be sure you get a 338 or 375 caliber. Those two calibers give you the best odds of killing what you are shooting at in a rifle weight that is tolerable. Then you want the cartridge that gives you the most velocity in the weight range of a weapon you can carry and actually hunt hard with all day. Remember the rifle is accurate and not the cartridge.

Yep...I gotta love that whole speed thing. I use my "match" 300 wby for my cabin gun....210 VLD's at around 3275. First run with the 230 Bergers shows great promise. I didn't have my chrono with me, but the powder charges were right up there with the 210's. Pretty sure that it should be 3200 or so. No elk or moose on the agenda...just big northern whitetails. My longest bait pile will be at 1360 yards. Been bangin steel there all winter. I probably don't NEED a 338. Just kinda WANT one.....you know, that whole big HP trip!! I could go with an Edge and just buy another tube. If I go bigger I will need to buy another bolt from BAT. I will be limited to the lapua/ WBY/Rigby sized cases. Can't do a Chytec based cartridge on this action.........BUT...SOMEDAY!!!

I already baught 4 new BBLs for my match guns this winter!! I can't seem to find a place to "draw the line". lightbulb

 

[Broz]

Broz,

You are right. I probably won't let the cost of brass be the deciding factor in the build. It's just that I here SO MUCH about the cost of the Lapua brass, which I consider to be superior brass....and NOBODY complains about the cost of the big Norma cases, which, as it sounds, is no where as near as strong.

I guess that it was late when I had that particular epiphany...I had a little chuckle, and posted. I guess I was tired!!

I here ya. It seems every 338 thread that comes up it is said that Lapua is more expensive to shoot. I disagree. I use Lpaua brass in all my LR rifles, 6mmbr, 300 win and 338 LM. I am sure I have before and I am sure I will again, but I can not remember tossing a Lapua case yet. But I can remember dumping a whole tray of WBY brass after less that 5 firings from a 30-378. That leaves a mark!! I really like the Wby's but I can not lie and say the brass will last as long as the Lapua. So to the origional post and intended direction of this thread. The Lapua Brass is cheap!!

Jeff

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

4x, I am not saying get the wby or any other rifle. I was just stating what criteria I use. The things I look at when making a choice for a long range hunting rig. Since I am a hunter and not a target shooter and have plenty of rifles to practice with cost of brass or bullets or anything else is not a consideration with me. I strictly look at what gives me the best odds within my parameters. That is all I was trying to say. Just putting some things out there to think about.