Brass problems. Help!

[Time Killer]

Alright, so I'm loading for 7 stw.
Once or twice fired brass.
180 Bergers
Retumbo powder.
Forster fl sizin die
Forster caliper seating die.
And...I'm still somewhat of a rookie at this.
I have worked up and loaded a few other calibers.
Here's my issue.
I thought I did everything right and while pushing the rounds in the box, the bullets pushed back through the necks and fell in.
Doh!!
Die problem or brass?
Help.

 

[Kentucky]

Sounds elementary but make recheck EVERYTHING. Check the adjustment on your die also. Just a guess

 

[MudRunner2005]

You did run them through the sizing die, right? I'm serious... Also, make sure your dies are setup properly.

If you did, either the die is junk and you need another one (I suggest Redding).

Or your brass is junk and has lost all of it's springiness and needs replacing with new brass.

Also, do yourself a huge favor, and get some of these to hold your loads...

Frankford Arsenal Slip-Top Ammo Box #211 300 Remington Ultra Mag 375

And a couple of these...

Frankford Arsenal Flip-Top Ammo Box #511 7mm Remington Mag 300

With the Frankford boxes, your rounds sit upwards and the bullets never impact anything.

 

[unclefish]

Make sure the bullets are correct size. With calipers could be missed marked.
Make sure you have correct die if you load for multiple calibers
Measure your expander in die with calipers make sure it is clean and correct size.

 

[Reloader222]

There is a problem with either your method of sizing or your sizing die. If all other bullets are loose and you did size the cases, pull the bullets and take out the powder. Then take out the expander/de-caping rod of your sizer die. Then size them again. Remember to clean the lube off. Put the powder back and the bullet. It might be that your sizer is oversize. Also measure the outside diameter of the case before sizing and then after sizing. You need at least 0.002" smaller diameter after sizing to get a proper grip.

 

[LoneTraveler]

Sounds like it is an elimination project. Hope you have a dial caliper and or Micrometer. 1. Check the bullets first. Make sure they mike out at .284-.2845 diameter. 2. Check the thickness of the case neck. Have these cases been neck turned to thin. 3. Now to the dies, Remove the de-capping- Expander rod. Take an empty case and run it through the die. Now check and see if a bullet will go in the case neck tight enough to hold it firmly. If the case will not hold the bullet tight. If the die uses inserts it may need to be replaced with an insert of the proper size. If the die uses a Expander ball to set the case neck final diameter. Check its diameter. It may be to large and will either need to be (replaced) or chucked in a lathe or drill and with abrasive cloth remove small amounts of metal, put die back together and run your test shell case, check with a bullet. Repeat polish and test till you have removed enough metal off the expander ball so it will not open the case neck to big and give you good neck tension on the bullet. About 1967 had the same problem with a set of HERTER'S 222 Rem. Dies. I had to remove about .003 of the expander ball to get good neck tension. Good Luck.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

I've had the exact same issue once. Are you full length or neck sizing? Have you reloaded for this cartridge before using the same dies and brass?

My first guess is if you have reloaded using the same dies and brass and you did not have this issue... Then your brass may need to be annealed, as it's been work hardened and needs to be softened.

If this is the first time for this cartridge and brass, do as mentioned above... try measuring your bullet size... Measure your expander (if full length sizing) or mandrel/bushing (if neck sizing). Then measure the inside of the necks of your cases before resizing. Resize and recheck your the necks of your cases. Have they changed? If not... Then either your expander/mandrel/bushing are not sizing the neck down sufficiently, or your cases have lost their elasticity and should be annealed. If the cases are any good, and your sizing dies are correct, you should eliminate this problem once you resize after annealing.

My problem was that my mandrel was a tiche too large from the factory. A little flitz and my Dremel resolved it by polishing the mandrel back .002.

Good luck and keep after it. I'm sure you'll get it sorted. Oh... And lastly... It's always a good idea to check every handful of rounds by pushing down on the bullet to make sure it's secure prior to putting it in the "completed" ammo tray.

 

[AZShooter]

Time Killer,

I read the many good ideas on isolating the problem. I agree with Lone Traveler that the case necks may have been turned. Where did you get the once and twice fired brass?

Time to answer questions so we can zero in on the problem.

 

[Time Killer]

Gentlemen,
First, thank you for all the great responses.
The die is a full length sizing die.
I sized all the brass. I got this brass as once fired and I shot 2 boxes of factory ammo and kept that brass. I measured the bullets. All of them were .2825, and I also measured some Barnes I had laying around. Same measurement.
I measured the inside diameter of brass after sizing at .279-.281.
After posting this, I pulled some bullets, checked the die set up, resized a few, and seated them. Same problem.
I did not resize and seat the newer brass. (Kicking myself now)
I have not checked the expander ball. That will be my next step.
I'll report back on that and also look at annealing.
Thanks.

 

[Time Killer]

I should also note, I shot 20 rounds of this loaded ammo. I don't think it affected accuracy and out of the 50 I loaded, only 2 of the remaining 30 didn't push back in.
So I'm pretty the ones I shot were "hanging" in there.

 

[deerassassin22]

When I had this problem with my .223 Dillon Die the expander ball was not going down all the way into the case to re size the neck. I had to reset the dies and start over fixed the problem. Also how far down the brass are you resizing all the way to the base/as close to base as possible?

 

[AZShooter]

Strange that your bullets are .2825. Should be .284 You have me wondering about your measuring tool, what are you using?

Do you still have a few unsized fired rounds? Measure the outside diameter of the necks. Then measure the neck OD of a sized round. Finally measure the neck OD with a bullet seated. Even if your measuring tool is off you will have relative dimensions for comparison.

Most FL dies I have used will give you a .003" difference between a sized round and one seated with a bullet in it.

Report back when you have done these measurements.

 

[Punisher]

Alright, so I'm loading for 7 stw.
Once or twice fired brass.
180 Bergers
Retumbo powder.
Forster fl sizin die
Forster caliper seating die.
And...I'm still somewhat of a rookie at this.
I have worked up and loaded a few other calibers.
Here's my issue.
I thought I did everything right and while pushing the rounds in the box, the bullets pushed back through the necks and fell in.
Doh!!
Die problem or brass?
Help.

Do you know for sure that your die is adjusted correctly in your press. It kind of sounds like your sizing die didn't recieve the shell deep enough and all you did was hit the expander ball.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Strange that your bullets are .2825. Should be .284 You have me wondering about your measuring tool, what are you using?

Do you still have a few unsized fired rounds? Measure the outside diameter of the necks. Then measure the neck OD of a sized round. Finally measure the neck OD with a bullet seated. Even if your measuring tool is off you will have relative dimensions for comparison.

Most FL dies I have used will give you a .003" difference between a sized round and one seated with a bullet in it.

Report back when you have done these measurements.

A good point about measuring equipment. Setting calipers or mics based off the zero point is not the correct way although very, very common. Your measurement equipment should be set against a know standard. While it's nice to have something like a .2500 standard on hand, a .100 feeler gage of known quality would suffice. In fact, the bullets mentioned could be used.

But, in the end, it's not the absolute dimension the OP should be concerned about but the differential between measured bullet diameter and neck openning. Here's another issue. Mesuring Inside Diameter (ID) with calipers induces an error because the inside jaws have a flat surface. generally, in the diameters we're talking about in ammunition, the error is around 0.001 to .0015.

So, given that the measured bullet diameter is .2825 and case necks measure .279-.281 I am going to make an assumption that the actual differences in the diameters is running around .0000 to .0025 at best.

Measuring expander diameter can be helpful but not necessarily unless it's clearly in the bullet diameter range. In my experience, the best course is to use new or once fired cases, take your measurements and if neck friction is insufficient, no matter the actual diameter of the expander, reduce it until you get the mentioned .003 difference.

Timekiller, everyone's advice so far has been excellent. There's no doubt you'll get this figured out quickly. I hope my $0.02 didn't muddy the water.